Like Father-in Law-NOT Like Son-In Law!

If someone signs the "No New Tax Pledge" what does this mean

Apparently nothing to the far-right in Virginia politics! Virginia Club for Growth President Phil Rodokanakis got angry at Jerry Kilgore for many stances-one being his support of Regional Transportation Authorities and more specifically their power to raise taxes.

In the 33rd District in Loudoun Ben pointed out Staton's conservativeness in a post below. Staton has gone on record supporting Kilgore's transportation authorities. Many Republicans did support them but what is the difference between Kilgore creating the idea and Staton supporting it?! NOTHING!

Staton publically signed a no-tax pledge but it seems according to Loudoun County Records he recently voted along with the rest of his board to reinstate the car tax...HMM

Here's the REAL KICKER-

In the Republican Primary last June Between Senator Bill Bolling and Chairman Sean Connaughton-Senator Ken Cuccinelli publically slammed fellow Republican Connaughton stating

"Since Sean Connaughton became Chairman of the Board of Supervisors real estate taxes have actually increased by 50% in just five years."

Cuccinelli has now become an outspoken supporter of Mick Staton along with the other conservative Senator's...but yours truely, NGC dug up some Facts the far-right DOES NOT WANT YOU TO SEE!

The FACTS are this!:

Over the SIX years since Connaughton took office, the average tax bill have gone up $1200 (it was $1941 in FY2000 and $3163 in FY 2006)

BUT IN JUST TWO years since Staton has been in office office, the average tax bill has gone up around $1000 Staton is on record defending the new rate and the budget process

In an editorial in the Leesburg Today Staton stated: "Meanwhile, working families in the east watch their tax bills go up by about $400 to pay for it all. Assessments will be adjusted four times under this board. This is the third double digit assessment increase under this Board of Supervisors, and the third massive spending increase in the county budget. This constant tax and spend attitude has gotten out of control. Growth in the budget is running rampant, and will continue to skyrocket until the taxpayers stand up and say, enough is enough. I think it is time we did just that."

Ah Micky boy! You began with noble intentions, but the average bill has gone up an average of $1,000. What will Papa Black say!?

The far-right in Virginia politics has simply gone BONKERS! What is a tax increase anymore!?

Republicans, Republicans! Sometimes I can't understand them!!

-NotGerryConnolly

Comments

[gopkdh]

Phil Rodokanakis and his crew have gone crazy-

Is the above true? Can anyone dissprove it?

[republitarian550]

Sounds like Rockingham Co.. The repubs say one thing and do another.

Wait a minute. I want all republicans to back off of these two. It is our "duty" to support either guy because they are republicans.

This guy Staton is a disaster before he even got started -- is he the next Chris Craddock?

Staton is a tax raiser. This is from the Loudoun Times Mirror:

When they adopted the budget this year, the Loudoun Board lowered the rate knowing it did not bring significant relief to taxpayers whose assessments have gone up every year:

Tax due on a $66,000 increase in assessment (the average increase from 2004 to 2005) at the old rate -- $731

Tax due on the extra $66,000 at the $1.04 rate -- $686

Amount saved by cutting the rate -- $45

Staton defended the new rate and the budget process.

[gopkdh]

No Craddock until the racial remarks start popping up.

If Staton broke his tax pledge why hasn't he been taken to task by the Club for Growth?

[Not Larry Sabato]

Not Gerry, I fixed your HTML. Next time, type what you want into the box instead of cutting and pasting and it won't change fonts like that.

Not Gerry, what do you say about Milchews donations to Saslaw and the Senate Democratic Caucus?

Its simple: pro-growth.

I looked at VPAP under Minchew. These are not bad numbers for a land use lawyer:

Republican: $33,363 (94%)
Democrat: $1,725 (5%)
Other: $500

The only problem I see with Minchew's 2005 donations is the money he gave to RPV:

Black, Richard (R-H032) 500
Bolling for LG (R-LTGOV) $5,000
Kilgore for Governor (R-GOV) $3,500
Mason, John (R-H037) $150
May, Joe T (R-H033) $1,960
McDonnell for Attorney General (R-ATTGEN) $3,250
Republican Party of Virginia (R-PAC) $120

PS - Staton has given money to nobody, Republican or Democrat!

Sorry, at typo: Minchew gave Blask $1500 in 2005.

[tooconservative]

I know the DL on the Minchew money to the Democrats.

He shares a banking account with his wife, who donated money to them.

He obviously is not a Democrat. He also lead the charge against Potts in Loudoun, which xes out all the Potts rumors.

I am confident Phillip Rodokanakis will support Minchew over Staton given the latters support for higher taxes and violating his pledge. I remember he attacked Connaughton saying:

Connaughton implies he has cut taxes. While the tax rate has gone down assessments have skyrocketed, resulting in an average increase in real estate taxes of 50 percent in just five years.

http://www.baconsrebellion.com/Issues05/03-28/Rodokanakis.htm

I can't imagine Rodokanakis would let someone get away with such lies. I remember him writing:

In ancient Greece, the philosopher Diogenes was said to have roamed the streets in broad daylight, holding a lantern and looking for an honest man. When it comes to Virginia politics, one doesn’t need a lantern to surmise that honesty in most political campaigns has indeed become a rare commodity.

So the debate on the politics of lies will undoubtedly continue. But as I said before, if this practice is allowed to continue, more and more voters will end up dropping out of the political process.

[NoVA Scout]

This could be fairly amusing. In fast-growing, prosperous jurisdictions like Loudoun and Prince
William, even a supervisor or County Chairman like Connaughton can have exquisite anti-tax credentials, but be subject to a sort of stupid arithmetic trick that can hornswoggle gullible or uninformed voters into thinking he's raised taxes. All it takes is unscrupulous partisans (do we have any of these?) to make it happen. Here's how it works: Candidate A works hard to cut taxes, lowers them dramatically. At the same time thousands of new homes are built, all of which are vastly larger and more costly than the pre-existing residential tax base. The county prospers and pre-existing other home prices and assessed values increase. Thousands of new residents arrive, bloating demand for schools, roads, police and fire protection, schools, sewers, etc. Candidate A runs for other office. Opponent says the average tax bill went up on your watch. The county budget went up on your watch. You're a (cue Psycho soundtrack) TAX RAISER!!! Of course this is nonsense, but some people who don't have the capacity or the time to figure it out buy it.

Bolling did this to Connaughton, despite the fact that Connaughton problably had a better anti-tax record than any statewide candidate in Virginia. Suddenly Connaughton is defending his tax record and Bolling, who hadn't had much effect at all on taxes in his entire public career, is off to the races without a care in the world.

Now here's where it gets sort of amusing. The guys that played this trick on the voters in the Bolling/Connaughton primary are exactly the people you'd expect to support Staton. But they'll get a double hernia trying to explain why they could get away with this with Connaughton but not hold Staton to the same standard. Staton is even more vulnerable because he's done objectively much less to lower taxes on the board than did Connaughton in PW AND, the overall arithmetic in Loudoun is probably more dramatic than in PW.

They may try to argue, well, Staton signed the No Tax Pledge and Connaughton always has refused. But that would be pretty silly. You'd almost have to be Phil Rodokanakis
to try something like that and still walk around without a heavy disguise.

Minchew is an intelligent and decent sort and knows how specious the argument is. But the fact that so many people bought into it in the LG make it very hard for wags and operatives to stop rubbing Staton's nose in this. Maybe the irony of it will finally put this stupidity to rest for future races.

[GOPHokie]

Not to refight the primaries, but Chairman Sean accused Bolling of real estate tax bills rising under his watch as well. They both attacked each other on that, but Chairman Sean ran TV ads on them, Bolling only talked about it at speeches.
Everyone knows that total tax bills will undoubtably rise in most all localities over an extented period of time.
As for Phil Rodakanakis, you folks may be a bit surprised at who he supports.

Here is what Ken Cuccinelli wrote on Friday, December 23, 2005:

For those that don't know Mick, he was elected to the Loudoun BOS in 2003 and he has been a strong fighter on the tax issue on that Board - exactly what we need more of in the State Senate.

[tooconservative]

GOP-

Bolling sent out mailer after mailer , AND did ads on the matter.

Telling how Sean and Tim Kaine were two birds of a feather...

I am curious as to what Rodokanakis and his crew will do..if they come out on the side of Staton with such a clear record against him, the "principles" the organization stands for will be void.

Cuccinelli and Rodokanakis are men of principle -- they will oppose Staton and bring all their resources to bear to stop him from being elected.

[ZB]

This reminds me of what happened in New Jersey under Christy Todd Whitman (by the standards of that time, a Republican)---she forced significant tax cuts, didn't have funding for roads and infrastructure, and then people started to notice their insurance premiums going up in an almost proportional amount to the money cut from their tax rate.

Now, the anti-tax folks gave us the Gilmore "no car tax" legislation lie which has forced localities like Loudoun to do this.

Phoney anti-tax pledges or not, there is no such thing as a free lunch. The question is just what levels of government end up collecting the money.

[SE VA MWC Alum]

anon 6:11 see anon 5:58

For the rest of you-read NoVA Scout's post about 15 times. He puts it straight. Tax Bills went up because ASSESSMENTS went up, not because boards of supervisors voted to raise rates. Assessmants are based on FAIR MARKET VALUE-set by assessors who are professionals in their job-as appraisers of real estate-when they increase it is because a house has APPRECIATED IN VALUE, it is NOT because the board of supervisors decided on a back door tax increase. Therefore, due to the fact that we have been in a REAL ESTATE BOOM for the last THREE TO FIVE YEARS, of course assessments went up. GET A CLUE

[tooconservative]

Is there anyone out there who can defend Staton?

[cricket]

chirp chirp

SE VA MWC Alum -

Sorry, you are wrong and the Virginia Club for Growth and VCAP agree with me.

[tooconservative]

who are you anyways anonymous?

Come on Staton crew...anyone got anything to dissprove the claim?

[Rtwng Extrmst]

I don't know Minchew or Staton. As far as I'm concerned if a candidate supported tax increases, he/she needs to stand by their decisions and let the chips fall.

However, I have to totally disagree with SE VA MWC Alum. Assessments may be done by "professionals" (for all I know they could be professional comedians), but in my experience the only similarity between government assessments of my property and the actual sale value of properties is that both seem to go up. My old assessment in FFX county was far below the actual sale value or construction value for insurance purposes for that matter. Furthermore the increases had no rhyme or reason to them compared to local trends in sales. This vast fluff in the numbers between assessed and "real" values only allows the local BoS to continue to play games with the system in order to raise taxes while still passing the buck politically. Until our state enacts a reasonable real estate tax system, perhaps something like the one in California, local elected officials will continue to use smoke and mirrors and claim they've lowered our taxes (rates) while increasing the tax bills whenever they think they need more revenue.

[mr_jms]

Rtwng-

Are you saying you underpaid your real estate taxes because the county government used an assesment less than your "real" value? Man, that really sucks!

[NOVA Scout]

RWE: You ought to be thrilled that your assessments lag behind market. I don't see that as a negative, frankly. I'd choke on my FFX tax bill if this place were assessed at market.

Staton got the largest tax rate DECREASE in Loudoun County's history passed this year. Staton is pushing to refund millions in surplus funds to taxpayers, and you call him a tax raiser?!? By your logic, every Delegate and Senator, Republican or Democrat, is a tax raiser.

Every time someone gets a new job, or a promotion, or a raise, they end up paying more money in state income taxes. The state income tax has never been lowered to 'compensate' for these increases.

If Staton didn't push for the $1.04 rate, the rate would be even higher. If you are a taxpayer, which do you prefer?

You guys are really sad. In one breath you say Staton is a hard core right wing nut, and in the next you are trying to call him a tax and spend liberal. To me that just makes you hypocrites who are backing a man who gives money to Democrats, supported the sales tax referendum in 2002, and will vote to raise your taxes in the Senate if he gets elected.

[tooconservative]

What about his support for Kilgores transportation authorities?

What about the drastic quick rise in assessments?

According to the local papers, there was a $66,000 increase in assessment (the average increase from 2004 to 2005). Tax due on the extra $66,000 at the $1.04 rate -- $686

In the paper, Staton defended the new rate and the budget process. He signed a pledge he would not do this and he did.

'Nuff said.

[Not Jack Herrity]

Looks like the Loudoun GOP is ready to turn cannibal again.

Apparently the GOP will only be happy once they've chewed up two decent people - Randy Minchew and Mick Staton - so that Senator Herring can make the trip to Richmond.

Times in Loudoun, they are a-changin'. The GOP will be singing the Loudoun Blues before long.

NJH

Staton doesn't support regional authorities. The pledge he signed was the Club for Growth pledge that said no revenue increases above population growth plus inflation which is what the $1.04 tax rate did.

Loudoun's population didn't increase 33% in two years -- who are you kidding!

BTW, the average increase a person would have paid if the 2002 sales tax passed was a fifth of the average increase in property taxes since Staton took office.

STATON IS A TAX RAISER!

This is great! The fun is beginning. Look at the 0908 post. I feel your pain, man. But we already established that we hold GOP candidates responsible for the tax arithmetic of increased home values. Lowering the rate to $1.04 isn't worth butkis in this neck of the woods. I know, I know, it sounds silly, but that's the standard in the GOP Commonwealth. Ask Bill Bolling, Phil Rodokanakis or the Prince William Taxpayers Alliance. Staton is much more of a "tax raiser" than Connaughton, at least by VCAP and Gang of Five standards, because he has not accomplished nearly as much as Connaughton to lower the rates. If VCAP et al. went after Connaughton, they'll unleash themselves like a flock of furies on Staton. Cuccinelli has to attack him. The statement of support posted above must be a forgery. Wait 'til Ken finds out! If VCAP and its allies don't lace into Staton with at least as much aggression and hostility as they expended on Connaughton, their positions really are without principle. It will show that they're just interested in talk, not deeds.

This is going to be so much fun. The only problem I see is that Minchew is too decent and smart to demagogue an issue like this. Where are Bolling and Randy Marcus when we really need them? They sure don't have any inhibitions about the argument. Even Rodokanakis has been pretty quiet since election day. I hope that cat hasn't got his tongue. Randy Minchew needs him. Phil could do a "Politics of Lies" hit piece on Staton and then Staton could do a big direct mail distribution of the reprints.

[tooconservative]

Anon-You are simply a liar.

I am looking at the newspaper Leesburg Today where Staton was Quoted as saying :

Staton said he favors Kilgore's transportation plan, that would allow regional transportation authorities to define road projects and raise taxes to fund those projects. He said Kilgore's plan gives more control to local governments, but Staton wants to see even more local control.

tooconservative -

wow, a comment from a Republican elected official saying he thinks Kilgore's transportation plan is better than Tim Kaine's. Tell me, how would you expect someone in his position to answer that question?

[tooconservative]

It doesnt matter why he answered that..he still answered it in support.

How is it that if some Republicans say one thing(Kilgore) they get bashed by the far-far-far right, but when Staton answers in support of the EXACT same measure the far-far-far right forgives him?

[eileen]

Hello Fellow Conservatives,

I wanted to take this time to introduce myself to you and let you know that our whole staff will be working very hard to make sure that Mick Staton will be our next 33rd District Senator. Mick is the son-in-law of Delegate Dick Black and he is a great guy who is a pro-life, pro-gun, and anti-tax candidate. Even though we lost a great conservative in this past election I want you to know that now is your chance to fight back and defend our conservative values. By helping Mick you will be doing a great service to Delegate Black. Please join me in helping to get Mick Staton elected to the 33rd District Senate Seat. If you would like to volunteer for the campaign please contact me at the information below. Thank you and I hope you have a Happy New Year!

Kellie DeRouen
Campaign Manager
Friends of Mick Staton
(703) 406-0483
k.derouen@verizon.net

[tooconservative]

By helping Mick you will be doing a great service to Delegate Black

-Come on Kellie..I've known you for a while now..and I am suprised as Campaign Manager you would be linking him with Delegate Black.

[Rtwng Extrmst]

Mr. JMS and NOVA-Scout, you missed my point entirely. I was not complaining that assessments were not high enough nor that I was underpaying taxes, but was complaining about how the current system is a farce and allows the BoS to play games with the assessments almost like having a little checking account on the side that they can draw from when they want to increase taxes, and to do this without having to increase rates. The "fluff" I mentioned between the "assessed" and "real" values allows the assessors to increase taxes whenever the BoS wants to increase spending without touching tax rates at all as long as we continue in the real estate market we have seen in recent years. This also allows the BoS to duck any political responsibility for the increases. They can even reduce rates while continuing to increase taxes in real numbers at record rates. Free money!!! The "spenders" on the BoS must love this personal "piggy bank".

What would make sense is to move to a system where assessments are based on the last sale price or the assessment from a refinance (much like in CA). Then the BoS would have to really plan and make the tough decisions and live with their decisions on taxes and spending without being able to pass the buck.

[fedupconservative]

Amen Rtwng Extrmst, I'm glad somebody else gets it and does fall for the tax cut "explanation" given by Connaughton and Co.

TooConservative--

Re: your 11:22am 12/28/2005 post

The answer to your question is that all extremists (liberal or conservative) all make their home on Hypocrisy Street. It's ok for them to break their principles because they're all working for the greater good. They alone are intelligent enough to divine when to grant grace and when to withhold it.

Their shrill cries have nothing to do with ideological consistency....it has everything to do with POWER. Pure and simple power. When they can guilt trip others into cow-towing to their agenda then they are in control.

Cuccinelli, Rodokanakis, et. al. are willing to turn a blind eye to Staton's impure tax votes because they want to vicariously re-elect Dick Black to the General Assembly via Mick Staton. If Democrats in the district can find a Poisson-like candidate they can take this seat back and send a clear message to Rev. Cuccinelli, Rev. Staton and Rev. Black that the days of socio-religious legislators who are more interested in imposing their religious views via government instead of solving traffic problems and building schools are numbered.

[nova_middle_man]

Their days are numbered in NoVA but NOT in other parts of Virginia. Republican party has some tough choices ahead. This aint your daddys Virginia anymore. Democrats: Virginia isn't Arlington/Alexandria or Maryland or California either. The center will rule the day. Which party can adapt the fastest

[NoVA Scout]

Kellie's little notice may have just ensured that, even if Staton gets the GOP nod, he'll lose in the general. I would have not expected Staton to want to be so officially and publicly advertised as a clone of Black. November doesn't seem so long ago that a candidate would go to the people proclaiming that "by helping Mick you will be doing a great service to Dick Black."

RWE: I lack your fertile mind for conspiracy theory. You make it seem that in these large northern counties, the assessors conspire with the Supervisors to bump up the assessments to offset the tax reductions. Even though assessments (mercifully) lag behind market values, they are driven by those values. The supervisors can't set the market (although they could drive it down in a hurry through malfeasance - Prince William had a long period of stagnant or declining market values before Connaughton took over from the Democrats there). If you and Fedupconservative are saying that Connaughton rigged the assessments to finance his tax reductions, you've got a huge story that will get a local reporter a Pulitzer. I haven't even seen the most crazed anti-Sean folks allege that (for good reason). And you can't allege this is happening in PW, but not happening in Loudoun. Both these counties are growing like wildfire. the newbuilds are big and lavish. Neither Connaughton nor Staton are cooking the assessments to effect tax increases. I'm willing to credit both with having done what they can to lower taxes in their jurisdictions. But when Connaughton lowers taxes on a grand scale, he is called a tax raiser for no reason other than the arithmetic of new builds and rising market values on existing homes. Staton's accomplishments in tax mitigation are piddling by comparison. His allies can't have it both ways. If rising home values make a tax increase, they do it for everyone, not just Connaughton.

Then you also have Staton's position on the car tax shortfall. Local taxes to make up that shortfall may be the acme of conservative fiscal prudence (I haven't really looked at the particulars in Loudoun), but the necessity of even considering local offsets to make up car tax shortfalls is a direct result of the utterly chaotic Gilmore car tax actions. Staton walks right into a sacred cow of certain elements of the Virginia GOP when he tries to adjust revenues to make up for the State leaving the Counties in the lurch on this.

The car tax and the real estate tax are bad taxes for reasons that everyone understands. They are complex to administer. They tax unrealized value of assets in ways that do not directly reflect public costs. Pegging the tax assessment to the last sale or refinance price is a partial solution, but one that can cause severe distortions in the real estate market. It would be better to get rid of these taxes altogether and replace them with taxes on realized income. But that would be a "New Tax" and, no matter how much of an overall improvement it would be, a lot of Republicans are too timorous to deal with the complexities of explaining how it would be administered and how you would give localities control over the proceeds for schools, police etc. To my knowledge, no political figure in Virginia (other than Connaughton's limited efforts in the LG primary) has ever talked openly with the voters about these issues.

Special elections are quirky things. Primaries in specials are even quirkier. Staton may well get the nomination. But he then has to run against what looks like a strong Democratic candidate. He simply can't get away with posing as a tax opponent without bringing down howls of hypocrisy from both right and left. So what's left? Social issues? Growth?

There's plenty of dry tinder around Staton's candidacy. Kellie just added a few sticks with her notice. A few sparks will make a nice blaze. I have a very positive impression of Mimms. I would hate to see us lose this seat to the Democrats.

[Rtwng Extrmst]

Anon. 2:46, your hatred and bile is evident that you know nothing of the people you speak. I suspect you are saying these things without having checked into who these people actually are. While I cannot speak for the others you mention, Ken Cuccinelli is not a man on a power trip. He truly cares about the people of his district and represents them as best as possible given that they elected him knowing his conservative views. However there are others in the GOP in VA that truly are on power trips. Potts, Chichester, Reese to name a few. They truly only care(d) about their political power and not about people.

If you want proof, just ask the folks in Cuccinelli's district who suffered in the tornado's in 2004. Cuccinelli was in there working with them in their neighborhoods to clean up the damage, the same day, without being asked. He has a servant attitude at heart and is not a hypocrite. I suggest you try to meet people and learn who they are before you cast aspersions.

I do not know Staton, and if he broke his pledge, I think he should explain himslef. However, you must remember that a pledge to limit tax increases to population growth plus inflation does not mean you have to oppose all tax increases.

[Rtwng Extrmst]

Fedupconservative, I thank you for your comments and agree with you in general. However, I am hearing that people in PWC actually are seeing real reductions in their property taxes based on Connaughton's support for lowered rates. While I am not sure I am ready to jump on his bandwagon, I have to give him the benefit of the doubt if real property taxes are being reduced in his county. After all, that is what we want our conservative leaders to work for.

Is this post real?!!! Is Staton an idiot in addition to being a tax raiser?!!!!

"...Mick is the son-in-law of Delegate Dick Black and he is a great guy who is a pro-life, pro-gun, and anti-tax candidate. Even though we lost a great conservative in this past election I want you to know that now is your chance to fight back and defend our conservative values. By helping Mick you will be doing a great service to Delegate Black..."

I live in Prince William and my tax bill went down three times in the last five years and up in two years. My house increased in value by $250,000 during that time period. Thanks god for Sean Connaughton!

I just looked at Statons website. He touts his vote against the county's 2004 budget and tax rate saying the rate needed to get down to $1.02 per $100. But he does mention his vote for the 2005 budget and tax rate at $1.04 per $100 which included the increases from 2004. What is this guy trying to pull?

http://www.mickstaton.com/issueDetail.php?ID=5

Taxes and Spending

Under the previous Board taxes in Loudoun County skyrocketed. Home assessments rose by more than 10% for three years in a row. Instead of lowering the tax rate to compensate for the increased assessments, they spent every dime. As a result, the average Loudoun homeowner saw their annual property tax bill climb by almost $1,200. Under their rule, the government spending in Loudoun County grew three times faster than the population increased. The Loudoun County Budget increased by 90% while working families and seniors on fixed incomes struggle to pay increased tax burden.

One of the first important actions taken by Supervisor Staton was to eliminate the PDR (Purchase of Development Rights) program. The controversial PDR program, championed by the previous board, took hard earned tax dollars and gave them to landowners in the West to keep them from developing land that they never planned on developing in the first place. $8 million dollars of tax payer money was given to these wealthy land owners.

As supervisor, Mick Staton is working to cut wasteful spending, root out inefficiency and control the overwhelming requests for department budget increases. Staton voted against the 2004 budget. “To simply remain at the same tax level as last year would have required us to set the tax rate at $1.02. I am disappointed that the tax rate was set at $1.1075. It is a disservice to taxpayers and I will not support it.” Staton will continue to fight for a lower, more reasonable tax rate in the coming years.

[fedupconservative]

I too live in PWC and my house has doubled in real value as has my real tax paid. Lest anyone believe my case is an isolated one, all neighbors I have spoken to have a similar tale. There might be a difference in the older neighborhoods in the eastern portion of the county but I am not familiar with their experiences.

That having been said, if indeed the real tax paid has decreased for a portion of the county, it has increased dramatically for other residents thus shifting the burden unto that particular segment of the population. Such a scenario might be acceptable if the adversely affected taxpayers reaped the benefits of the increase but under te afore described scenario, residents of the eastern portion are reaping the benefits of route 1 improvements, responses to BRAC, parkland acquisition, etc., etc. while those paying a proportionately higher percentage of the freight get longer response times from county fire stations, yearly school boundary changes, increased traffic and no improvements to the underlying infrastructure crumbling under increased development.

If Connaughton were responsible for the increased value of my home, I might be willing to buy into some of the assertions being made, but the arguement crediting him for the increased value is about as plausible as crediting the recent success of the Patriots to the governor of Massachusetts because the Super Bowl victories came on his watch.

The increased value has little to do with the BOCS apart from their approval of new development that has driven the resale value of existing homes up under the present market conditions. The true driver has been the local economy and by that I mean the regional one dominated by the jobs in DC/Alexandria/Arlington that has increased the demand for housing in the region.

Rtwng Extrmst makes a valid point, one unwittingly underscored by his critics, there is a fluff factor built into the assessment and tax rate structure currently in place that will allow the BOCS to continue to raise assessments over the next few years despite any diminshing of current market value. If property were assessed at its real or market value and the tax rate adjusted such that the taxes collected approximated or even slightly increased over the following fiscal year, it would force the BOCS to make hard decisions at the front end and engage in better planning as they wouldn't have a ready source of income to fund unforseen shortfalls, pet projects or an everchanging agenda.

It all comes down to responsibility and full disclosure, traits that are not readily apparent at the PWC BOCS.

I agree with Fedupconservative -- Staton has a lot of explaining to do regarding his breaking of the tax pledge.

[tooconservative]

Well I don't live in PWC, or own a home..but I can feel the positive kharma leaving PWC and floating over the Occoquan into Fairfax.

The kharma of course..being Sean Connaugton's help to the tax-payer

Gerry Connolly has been quoted saying that the main reason he keeps on pushing the tax rate down is what Prince William is doing with its rate -- go Sean go!!!

I just looked at the Loudoun website. According to the site, the 2005 fiscal plan reduces the real property tax rate from $1.10 ¾ to $1.04 per $100 in assessed value. Because of an increase in the value of residential property assessments, the annual property tax bills for the average homeowner increased by about 12.4 percent! This is verbatim from the website, why is Staton proud of this and how can he claim to be a conservative anti-taxer?

[Not Really Blond]

Interesting info. By the way, speaking of interesting, you do know Ms. DeRouens day job don't you?
http://www.virginiaclubforgrowth.org/news/PR081005.htm
... so who do you think Rodokanakis will really support?

[GOPHokie]

RWE may be off w/ his conspiracy theory, but he is right about the assessments. ALmost everywhere that real estate prices have been rising (i.e. NOVA and the valley I know for sure) do the same thing. The assessments are only a percentage of the real value. That keeps the taxes lower, but it also gives the BoS a chance to raise taxes without raising the rates.
Staton, Connaughton and every other supervisor in Virginia has raised the total tax bills for people in the last 5-10 years in one way or another. The way they do it shouldnt really matter.

I know all you folks are poli sci majors but a little class on economics may help here:

Rising assessments = rising demand

rising demand = rising population

rising population = rising services

rising services = rising costs to localities

rising costs = need for more revenues, e.g., taxes

Maybe we should play this over and over again to the Club for Growth and the other whacky anti-taxers?

[Nova Scout]

GOP Hokie:

Much as I agree with you on mnay things, you can't be serious that rising home values are tax increases. If you take that position, the very vew politicians in Virginia who have actually accomplished things on the tax front (Connaughton, Fitch, for example) have no incentive to keep fighting the good fight. Conserviatvies believe that as you lift the dead hand of taxation, enterpirse flourishes and wealth increases. In many cases that will result in higher overall tax payments and receipts. But the stimulus for increased wealth in these situations is lowering the rate of taxation. As I have noted in other posts, by your logic, Reagan and the two Bushes are tax raisers because I have paid increasingly more taxes under their adminstrations thanks to my increased wealth. We should reward these guys, not pillory them when they put conservative principles on display to the benefit of the citizens.

[fedupconservative]

You left a few things out of your economic lessons.

The rising population that creates the rising demand for services and ergo the need for more revenues, in and of itself provides previously unrealized additional revenue.

Further, the transaction cost of providing additional fire, water, police, etc. for the new population is not the same as the initial start-up as you do not have to build a new infrastructure from the ground up. In fact, given that the preponderance the infrastructure is already in place and one is merely adding capabalility to it, the average transaction cost to the resident/consumer in the form of the percentage of his taxes required to pay say the cost of one police officer's salary, should decrease, unless of course the BOCS goes overboard and increases capabilities beyond means or demand.

This dynamic is why start up companies so often fail, well-managed companies decrease their transaction cost and increase their profit margin as they expand, and some poorly managed, initially successful companies expand too quickly, increase their transaction cost above demand and file Chapter 7/11.

Not a sermon, just a thought.

Fedupconservative - you understand very little about the cost of local government services; you must be a federal employee or contractor.

Local governments spend money on providing services to people, but collect taxes primarly from things, such as cars and real estate. Currently, localities in Nova spend around $5000 per capita on services, such as schools, transportation, public safety, etc., whether or not they use these services because the system must be in place for the time they need them. School costs alone are around $10,000 per student. With the average household in the suburbs of around three people, the localities are spending around $15,000 per household while collecting only around $4000 in real property taxes. (This is why residential growth NEVER pays for itself.) Where does the other $11,000 come from? Other taxes and transfers from the federal and state governments. So when the federal and state government decrease or keep steady their transfers to localities in the face of rising populations what happens? Localities have to get more from their largest revenue source -- real property taxes! What does this do? Allows Richmond and Washington to spend money on other things -- as we saw with the $1.5 billion surplus this year in Richmond. So does anyone talk about the spending problem? No, they talk about taxes.

Rtwg Extremist also does not understand that prices are rising for everything in Nova due to population growth and competition for scarce resources, euch as labor, land, and construction materials. He points out his house value has tripled; now try being a local government having to buy land at that value for a school, road, police or fire station and you can see where the money grows. Now add the rising costs of energy and oil, and think about the impact on massive school systems and bus fleet not to say the least, asphalt for roads. For good measure, through in the costs of steel and conrete due to a worldwide shortage from Chinese demand. Get your head out of the clouds and understand that brick and mortar and land and people are in shore supply in Northern Virginia and the rising costs are people passed onto the taxpayer - there is no free lunch for living in the hottest economy in North America.

[GOPHokie]

NOVA Scout, thats my point. Republicans seem to continuously beat each other up on the fact that if a total tax bill rose, they are a tax raiser. Thats not true, but thats the way many seem to portray it. I agree that raising the assessments while lowering the rates is a good move. I am just sick of the Connaughtonites saying how much Chairman Sean
"cut taxes" and then getting mad at other supervisors who have done the same thing as him. I hope I have clarified my stance.
7:05, I am a Finance major, not poli sci.

[w00t]

Caveat: I'm just guessing and my memory is not as good as it used to be.

One possible explanation that Mick Staton voted for $1.04 rate was that a lower rate could not pass the BoS. This was the lowest rate that could muster the necessary votes. Any higher rate would have also have garnered the necessary votes.

I am not saying that Staton said this but that is my interpretation of the reports. Now, if that is correct then Staton had 2 choices. Vote for $1.04 or hold out for a lower rate AND see his constituents get a $1.06 or $1.10 rate. As a constituent, I'll take $1.04. If that makes him a pledge-breaker, as a constituent, I am willing to forgive him given the situation. If you want to use that "pledge-breaking" to ensure that he doesn't win, that is your choice.

So you are saying it is okay to break one's pledges and raise taxes in the spirit of compromise in oder to deliver governmental services?

I think every member of the Loudoun BOS signed the tax pledge and now everyone of them have violated it.

I've never known a "connaughtonite" to ping on a supervisor for cutting tax rates. It's the only avenue an elected official has for being anti-tax. You can't cut home values and you can't cut income. If you had the power to do either of those things and used it, you would rightly be the most vilified man in America. Sometimes I get the impression that elements of the Virginia GOP will only support tax cuts if they are applied to the tax base instead of the tax rate.

What you're seeing in this discussion of Staton is some ribbing from the people who understand tax policy against people like Bolling and VCG, who tried, seemingly successfully, to hornswoggle the electorate into believing that increasing average values in homes was a tax increase. Sauce for the goose and all that. While a lot of this is being done in pointed jest, there is a very important underlying principle. That is that this sort of sliming from one side was opportunistic and selective and was done to keep attention away from the lack of substantive anti-tax accomplishments by people like Bolling. It also was a cheap way to obscure the accomplishments of tax-cutters outside the General Assmebly, where, despite all the wrods, precious little has ever been accomplished. No one who supported Sean is really annoyed with Staton for advocating the lowering of the tax rate. But we are saying that Loudoun's overall tax collection dynamics are even more negative than PW's if one uses the Bolling/Rodokanakis theory of public finance.

[w00t]

Hmmm,

First, a request although I don't supposed it will be acceded to. Will the person or persons that post with no name please stop doing so so that I can get an idea of which threads/thoughts/statements are from which identities? As a courtesy, could you please do that?

Let's see... "Raise Taxes" can mean:

1. Raise tax rates.
2. Raise taxable assesments.
3. Raise tax revenues.
4. (1) & (2)

Unless I am mistaken, the so called vote that Staton did was to do with tax rates and that was the only thing any board member could vote for or against was for the rates. In this case, Staton voted for a LOWER rate. Please anyone, correct me if I am wrong.

Tax assesments (2) are controlled elsewhere and so CANNOT be considered to be voting to raise taxes. Again, it depends on YOUR definition

Raising tax revenues (3) can be considered raising taxes as well and can happen WITHOUT raising rates (1) or assesments(2) but I suspect that is not what we are discussing here.

So, unless my logic or assumptions are wrong here (which is entirely possible) Mick Staton did not vote to raise taxes as in (1) unless your definition or raising taxes is (2)or(3) in which case is not under the BoS control. If your definition is (4) then the assesments part of (4) is still not under the BoS control and Staton still voted to lower the rate.

Perhaps my deconstructionist approach may be a little too difficult to follow as sometimes I don't communicate very well. For that I apologise.

As for pledge-breaking by Mick Staton - by my definition, he hasn't. By your definition, your mileage may vary.

Who said politics is the art of the possible or something like that?

[fedupconservative]

"Fedupconservative - you understand very little about the cost of local government services; you must be a federal employee or contractor." "Local governments spend money on providing services to people, but collect taxes primarly from things, such as cars and real estate."

Again you have told only half the story or know only half the story. Look at any municipal budget and you will find that taxes collected from cars and real estate generally make up less than half and frequently less than a third of the total municipal revenue stream. You have left out things like proffers, permit/review/license fees, BPOL, gross receipts taxes, Business PP, ABC revenue, wine liter taxes, railroad rolling stock, sales taxes, utility useage taxes, etc., etc., etc. not to mention locality specific revenues such as cigarette or meals taxes and that doesn't even get into funding by the Feds, State or other sources of grants.

No I am neither a federal employee or contractor but I do understand the budget and the revenue streams as well as the manner in which the spending of the revenues operates. You on the other hand sound like a typical arrogant local government bureaucrat, perhaps a county executive or staffer. Stop whining about Fed/State shortfalls, don't shift the blame and get your own house in order.

Nice try WOOT but a problem is that Staton -- himself mind you -- calls the lowering of rates but not the lowering of tax bills, a tax increase. See
http://www.mickstaton.com/issueDetail.php?ID=5

He also pledged not to do this when he ran for office and signed a tax pledge to back it up. The problem is the candidate and his words/actions.

Sounds like "fedupconservative" is becoming a "fedupblogger."

Chill big fella, take some valium, and blog us in the morning!

[fedupconservative]

Just for kick I looked at the PWC FY06 budget, their documentation shows that property taxes generated 40.3% of the county income, unfortunately they do not line item the revenue so business and personal property taxes are mixed together and it is not readily apparent how much of the burden is actually carried by the residents.

Then, played around with the various towns in PWC and found one with a line item budget (Haymarket), they did differentiate between the property taxes collected and the percentage of the revenue provided by residents in the form of property taxes is roughly 16%. Anon. 10:17, your arguement just fell apart.

[w00t]

OK, let's use that link you supplied and analyze it. You said a "tax increase". I searched for the word "increase" on that page and got:

1. "increased assesments"
2. "population increased"
3. "County Budget increased by..."
4. "struggle to pay increased tax burden"
5. "department budget increases"

Ok, I take it to mean that you refer to #4 above - which is to say "increased tax burden".

If your question is "Did (total) taxes increase?" then based on that page's use, I would have to agree.

The logical next step is to ask - just WHAT did he sign? That he would not increase:

(a) tax RATE
(b) property assesements
(c) total property tax burden
(d) something else

You seem to insist that the pledge MUST be interpreted to mean (c). Entirely possible, please someone, show us the text of the pledge to help us find out the truth! I propose, that in the absense of such a text, that we must reasonably conclude that since the BoS can only vote on the tax rate and not control assesment values (which in some cases came after the vote) that the pledge can therefore be interpreted in one or both of the following ways:

(i) that they will not INCREASE the TAX rate
(ii) they as a board MIGHT consider decreasing the TAX rate if possible.

Let's look at the alternative interpretation (even if I were to agree with your characterization of Mick Staton's page).

Remember when the Democrats accused the Republicans of cutting benefits to some needy segment of the population when what the Republicans actually did was reduce the amount of increase for the next budget year?

Based on your (and possibly Staton's) interpretation, the following scenarios would be breaches of the pledge as well:

- Property values go up 10%, tax rates go down 9%
- Property values go up by 50%, tax rates go down by 32%
- Property values go up by 100%, tax rates go down by 49%
- Property values go up by 200%, tax rates go down by 66%

All because the tax reductions were insufficient to compensate for the assements?

OK, let's say that assesments drop next week or had dropped sufficiently last year so that the total tax bill goes down to what it was before or less. Does that mean you will change your mind then and say that he didn't break his pledge? That's an interesting way to view things:

Whether a policitian has broken his no tax increase pledge is dependent on how hot the housing market is and how much a home is assesed for.

I'll have to remember that one.

woot hit it on the head -- Staton is a squishy, moderate high-taxer!

[w00t]

Grasping at straws anyone?

As a Loudoun resident, I can't afford straw because Staton and the rest of those pro-taxers stole all my money.

[w00t]

Instead of targeting any single politician, we need to fix the real issues.

I could live with a property tax cap that is the greater of 2 or 3 percent per year or inflation - whichever is greater.

See http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2005/Apr-07-Thu-2005/news/26237490.html as an example.

[GOPHokie]

Folks, the gist of the arguement here is that Staton claims a tax bill that rises is a tax increase. At the same time, Staton voted to cut the tax rate by an amount that still created an increased tax bill.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that is the argement being levied by the "anti-Staton" folks on here.

[Not Really Blond]

BEERMAN? Hey bloggers, back to the Senate race for a minute... is there any truth to the rumor that Larry Beerman may be running now too?

GOPHokie gets it.

[w00t]

GOPHokie, I think I fully understand the claim. However, since we can't fully agree on exact terms, how can we definitively say what was what?

The key questions are:
- What was the text of the pledge? This is crucial.
- Can we insist that someone keep a pledge that may not be in his power to keep given one interpretation?

Please note that that page pointed to by Anon says that the "tax burden increase". Note that the last sentence of that same page says "Staton will continue to fight for a lower, more reasonable tax rate in the coming years" which focuses on RATES. Why be selective about that page?

All I am saying is that interpreting in the way Anon wants it opens up a whole can of worms as to whether a pledge was broken is defined by market forces and real estate appraisal people. That if anything is a squishy way to answer a question. You can do that if you want but the position has to withstand some analysis and I hope that I have shown the weakness of that kind of interpretation.

[Rtwng Extrmst]

Everyone,

This whole recent thread on real estate assessments vs. taxes and whether or not they are tax increases is a perfect example of my previous argument. It becomes such a jumbled mess that the BoS is free to continue to raise the tax burden (I define this as actual increase in tax dollars required of voters each year) without any political responsibility. If VA would move to a property tax assessment code as I mentioned earlier (like in CA) this would bring sanity to the situation and would make the BoS responsible for their good or bad county planning decisions. THAT was my whole point!

[w00t]

Rtwng Extrmst, I apologise for not noticing your points earlier due to my overfocus on analyzing one single politician's vote. I have since gone back in this comment thread and reread all that you have written and I find that you make absolutely perfect sense.

I am not sure that this comment thread is the appropriate forum for this but I will go ahead anyway.

When I lived in MD, county income tax rates were set by Annapolis, not by county politicians. That was another example of accountability cowardice that grated in the extreme.

The tax system and the political avoidance is the root cause here. Any single vote or tax burden is just a symptom although they are the most visible aspects of the system.

At the risk of being right of Rtwng Extrmst, why do we pay sales tax once but property taxes year after year?

The concept of property tax caps started in CA in 1978 and is not without its problems but you don't see it getting repealed do you?

Here's another wacky proposal. They can raise whatever tax rates they want but current residents get a 3 year application lag on a tax rate raise and zero lag on tax rate drop. New residents have to pay the current rate.

On principle, if you held your property for 10 years and it went from 100,000 to 200,000 and back to 100,000 (in theory), you have gained nothing (and lost a great deal due to inflation) but the county got to collect increased taxes above 100,000 throught the whole 10 years. Why not connect county taxes to your selling price?

I guess I will have to blog about this sooner or later. Sigh.