Warning to Republicans

If you are thinking about voting in the primary between Harris Miller and Jim Webb....

I asked State Senator Ken Cuccinelli to describe the impact of such an action, with the recent amendment added to the Republican Party Plan (emphasis mine): 
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In June 2004 the RPV passed an amendment to the Republican Party Plan (RPP) that allowed (but did not require) all Republican Committees to exclude either or both Democrats (presumably defined as Democrat Party primary voters) and independents (presumably those that have lived in Va. but have not previously participated in a Republican nomination, though this has not been fully developed).  This amendment to the RPP is effective June 15, 2006, i.e., in time for the 2007 elections but not the 2006 elections.  The amendment specifies that no one voting in a Dem primary prior to March 1, 2004, can have that held against them (b/c it was before the amendment, and they would have no notice).  So the voting that "counts" for determining if a voter is a Dem is primary voting after 3/1/04.

In the case that I argued before the 4th Circuit this morning, the 11th State Senate District Republican Committee was informed by the incumbent Senator, Sen. Martin, that he intends to select a primary as his nomination method (incumbent members of the GA get to choose their renomination method under 24.2-509, the "incumbent protection act").  That committee then met and voted to hold a primary but they also voted to exercise their right under the RPP to exclude Dem primary voters (i.e., anyone that has voted in a Dem primary since 3/1/04).

If the 11th State Sen. Dist. GOP wins its lawsuit to enjoin (i.e., stop) the enforcement of the open primary law, then any party unit will be able to define (w/in certain limited parameters) who may participate in its primaries.

If a Republican votes in the upcoming Dem primary for Senate, then he/she will not be allowed to vote in a Republican primary for the following 5 years in those races where the governing Republican committee has voted to exclude Dem party primary voters.

There is an "out," but it's only a one-time out.  Under the RPP, a Dem primary voter may sign a disaffiliation pledge formally disaffiliating with all non-Republican parties that they may have supported or affiliated with in the past.  If they sign that pledge, they can proceed to vote in that GOP primary.  However, after signing such a pledge, if that voter thereafter votes in another Dem primary, then they will no longer have the disaffiliation option available to them.

I hope that this is a helpful explanation.
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In other words, if a Republican votes in this primary, they might not be able to support George Allen in the 2008 Presidential Primary, they may not be able to vote in the Jim Gilmore-Tom Davis primary for Senate in 2008, and they may not be able to vote in the Bob McDonnell-Bill Bolling contest for Governor in 2009.

Do you really want to tell those people you can't vote for them because you voted for Harris Miller?

Comments

[George Templeton]

Well as someone who as supported closed primaries for a long time, I say good. Let Democrats pick Democratic candidates and Republicans pick Republican candidates. It's not perfect, but so what, politics will never be perfect. I take it NLS that you agree with this policy?

[George Templeton]

I mean has supported. Dammit.

[Not Larry Sabato]

Yeah, I love it. I hope he wins the suit, it will clean up both parties.

[Mike Sizemore]

I agree...we'll pick our best you pick your best. Let the candidate of his people's chosen go forth and govern!

Rats, foiled again...I knew our nepharious Republican plot to help Harris Miller win the Democratic nomination for Senate was in the bag...Ben's articulate warning is right on target. Foiled again...our cock-a-roach plan is now in the light for all to see. Foiled again by you damn Bloggers!

[Bwana]

I like the idea of party registration...and if the Cooch likes the idea, why not just introduce legislation requiring voter registration by party? Why go backdoor with a lawsuit?

Given how well lawsuits have worked in the past to allow political parties any say in limiting who can participate in the nominating process, what is the likelihood that the 11th district committee will win this lawsuit? Isn't this a political matter that is more properly taken care of in the legislature? It is also likely that this plan will raise issues under the Voting Rights Act, which Virginia must comply with.

If we want voter registration by party in Virginia, pass the law...and do it quick, because the "?" key on my keyboard is starting to stick...

The blogosphere is crazy if it actually thinks a large number of Republicans even have interest in this primary, let alone intend to vote. People don't vote in their own primaries, they're not gonna vote in the other parties' primary contest between 2 complete unknowns.

[Not Jack Herrity]

A little freaked out by the possibility of GOP spoiler votes, are we?

Cuccinelli is blowing smoke. The GOP party plan is illegal under current state law. He was in front of the 4th Circuit yesterday because a federal judge in Richmond, Henry Hudson, tossed the case and Cuccinelli appealed. I don't see any reason for the 4th Circuit to overrule Hudson.

If you really want to know why this case is bogus, go back and check out the Jaded JD's archives.

NJH

[Virginia Centrist]

The more important point that Ben's making here is this:

Harris Miller is a tempting candidate for Republicans to vote for. He's the worst Democrat to hit the ballot since.......

[Bruce]

We have an open primary right now. At a recent GOP Committee meeting the members were actually encouraging each other to vote in the DEM primary. Some wanted to hurt Webb because they saw him as a stronger challenger to Allen. Some wanted to help Webb so that they would like their Senator either way and saw it as a way to be sure they had a basically GOP Senator - even if Webb is currently affiliated with the Dems.

Personally, I like closed primarys. But until state law changes, I doubt this will be used in our area to exclude membership in the GOP.

[novamiddleman]

As a citizen I have a right to vote in whatever election I want to end of story.

[not gretchen bulova]

Totally agree NMM. Not everyone fits into the neat little parties and they should not be punished with closed primaries.

[Virginia Centrist]

If you allow the likes of Ken Cuccinelli to keep people from voting in Republican primaries, what sort of party will you be left with?

I can see it now. First, they expel people who voted in Dem primaries.

Next, they expel people who refuse to take a loyalty pledge to an unborn fetus.

Finally, they expel people who refuse to break all of the windows of homosexual businessmen with them.

This is why the Republican Party of Virginia is on the way out. They are more interested in keeping it pure, than winning.

[James Young]

This is a bad idea (five years seems a bit too much) provoked by a worse one, to-wit, the refusal of the Virginia Legislature to authorize partisan registration. It has little to do with "purity," and everything to do with partisan hygiene.

As a usual supporter of partisan hygiene, Ben, I'm not surprised that you would support this.

[Geoff]

This blog is becoming more a partisan tool than a news source. News is more interesting than propaganda.

[Bwana]

NJH-

Being technologically inept, I could not locate the Jaded JD archives...Althouth I understand he/she no longer blogs.

If you have a link to the same, please share...I would love to see the background info you alluded to in your 0757 post above

[J. Sarge]

This lawsuit will fail at the Fourth Circuit. Legislation closing primaries is often introduced, with little result. Getting incumbents to vote to repeal the "incumbent protection act" is a hard sell.

For what it's worth, in an era of extremely accurate partisan redistricting, I favor open primaries. It's the only way to have a meaningful vote.

[Not Jack Herrity]

Here is one of the posts:

http://jaded_jd.typepad.com/the_jaded_jd/2005/04/more_on_party_n.html#comments

This should provide some perspective. FYI, Jaded is a Silver Blogger.

NJH

[brent]

as long as you are prohibited from voting in 2 primaries in one cycle, i see no problem with the open primary system. there are some folks out there who don't always vote for one party or the other. hell, my parents voted for Kaine last year and he was the first Dem they voted for since McGovern. closed primaries limit the democratic process, and if any party is ever organized enough to arrange to spoil the other party's primary... well, then that's just impressive.

Party registration won't help with people who really want to vote in the other party's primary. A friend of mine went to college in southern CA and registered as a Republican (depite being a liberal hippie with long hair) so he could vote in the Republican primaries and help elect the most right-wing, racist, insane canidate possible. Not as easy as it is now in VA, but still can be done if you want.

Point is, open primaries are a part of Virginia politics. Don't get rid of them.

[DLC = New Labour]

I have to say that this whole discussion is based on a pretty silly idea. Republicans are not going to vote in the Democratic Primary for Harris Miller. You know why? They don't care. Republicans aren't afraid of Webb, because they know Allen will beat either Webb or Miller like a drum. Some of you need to stop lying to yourselves and admit this is true.

[Virginia Centrist]

DLC:

That may be somewhat true. But if Miller gets the nomination, Allen can just fly back to Iowa and start running for president again.

[novamiddleman]

Here is another personal example. When I lived in Maryland I registered Democrat even though I leaned republican so I could choose candidates because Maryland is pretty blue. If Virginia went party registration I would have to choose between republican (agree more) on ideals or democrat (because I live in a Blueish area) to select candidates. As districts become less and less competitive more people would be forced into this awkward decision.

[DLC = New Labour]

VC,

You are right. Notice how I said Webb or Miller? I think either way Allen will be holding a Jim Nussle for Governor Fundraiser by mid-September.

[Vivian J. Paige]

I like open primaries as well. Remember, most people don't identify themselves as R or D. By closing primaries, we eliminate the independents from participating in the process.

Another reason for open primaries is that even those who identify themselves as R or D will occasionally want to cross over and vote for a certain candidate. I don't think that the majority of crossover vote is malicious. I voted in the R primary in 2000. And I know that a number of Rs crossed over & voted for me in the D primary last year. I also know of some R supporters of mine who wouldn't vote for me in the primary because they didn't want a D in their voting record.

Personally, I think the "threat" of R's voting in the primary is pretty small.

[Jonathan Mark]

I tried to get Republicans to vote in the 2004 primary against Jim Moran, and very few of them would do it.

I only got one Republican lady to do it. She told me that she wanted to "run Jim Moran out of town on a rail."

If more Republicans had turned out to vote in the 2004 Democratic primary we would be rid of Jim Moran now, and Andy Rosenberg would be getting ready to run for his second term against an invigorated local Republican party.

Moran wins again. So what else is new?

You can't fight City Hall, and you can't fight congressional incumbents. It's part of the deal when you are born.

[Not Frank Hargrove]

I will vote in any republican primary in which Bill Bollimg is a candidate, just to vote against him. I did in 2005 and I will do it again in 2009. Fat lot of good it did though.

[James Young]

Maybe the best reason to NOT vote in the other party's primary is that you would virtually double the amount of political mail in your mailbox.

[William]

I think the non-party affiliation is great, especially for "purple" states like Virginia.

Not only does the largest segment of registered voters consider themselves 'independent', but open primaries are a great way to introduce partisans to the other side and break down some traditionally held stereotypes.

My folks are die-hard Republicans, and they were familiar with Jim Webb from our Navy family days, but they're not nearly interested in his race as they are now if they couldn't vote for him June 13th. In the meantime, they've met friends and volunteers at events & fundraisers, and are starting to realize that those (shudder) Democrats aren't all whiny, hippie, pot-smoking communists after all.

And I'll admit the converse is true.
I'm a Democrat, but if we put a loser up there (or don't challenge a loser incumbent), I'd like the freedom to register my disgust by voting R every once in a while -
if they can run a non-neanderthal ;)

It seems to me we're missing the point. Even IF Allen wins this fall - that Senate seat is STILL going to a Democrat - because when he steps down to run for President, Tim Kaine will appoint a DEM into the seat.

Sure glad ol' George cares about keeping Virginia RED. Guess Davis & Gilmore will each have a US Senate seat to fight for after 2008.

George is NOT going to step down to run for President. That seat will only open up if he wins and replacing him will be small consolation if that happens.

[George Templeton]

While I still prefer closed primaries, if you could guarantee that voters could only vote in one primary at a time, and not both because they are on different days, then the open primary system would be ok.

2008 is a lifetime away. Allen has GOT to win his seat or he won't be a credible candidate in 2008. Let's keep our eyes on the prize here. Whether its Miller or Webb- this reelect is crunch time.

[charles R.]

Ben, the rules about committees involves membership in committees, not who votes in primaries.

I suppose that if we did go to a party registration, they could try to stop registration for some people, but I'm betting we wouldn't -- being registered in a party wouldn't be as big a step as being in a committee.

If I WERE to vote in the democratic primary, I'd probably vote for Webb, both because he is closer to my point of view than Miller, and he's likely an easier candidate to beat than miller.

If for no other reason than that miller has already had the kitchen sink thrown at him by his own party, and if he survives that he'd have to be a pretty strong candidate.

[A Voter]

I agree with you, Ben.

Only those who strongly identify themselves as Dems should be allowed to vote in this primary.

This is not a general election, this is a chance for people in the party to decide who best represents their viewpoints.

It would be wrong for someone who agrees with Republican ideals 80-90% of the time to have a say in who represents the Democratic Party of Virginia.

It comes down to this: Would you want people like me (Conservative Republicans) to deicide who is the best Democrat to run for office?

[Rick Sincere]

How would this "closed primary" provision be enforced?

The Registered Voters Lists (or pollbooks) used by election officials on Election Day do not include voting histories for individual voters. (The larger, computerized voter registration database does.)

Political parties would have to post pollwatchers at every RVL table to challenge voters who show up but who are disfavored by that party. Any pollwatcher could assert that a voter had previously voted in the other party's primary and was therefore ineligible to vote. But the voter would have no way to defend him/herself against such an assertion, since the average voter does not carry along his voting history from the VVRS (or the new system, VERIS, which will be implemented by next year).

The only way closed primaries can work practically is if Virginia allows registration by party -- and that must be through an act of the General Asssembly.

[The Squeaky Wheel]

Back in Ohio where I am originally from, only registered Republicans can vote in GOP Primaries and the same for Dems.

[Steve Rankin]

Actually, Ohio does not have voter registration by party.

Ohio is one of the 22 open-primary states, which also include Virginia.