Weenie of the Week #20 for 2006

By Dannyboy

This Week's Weenie is.....Thelma Drake!

Nah, I'm just kidding.

The real Weenie of the Week has to be Shaun Kenney, with special honors to Jason, Charles, and all those other accusers who have thrown around the word “Jewbaiting” as casually as one would toss a baseball.  Read their quotes here.

First, let’s start with the Webb statements that got a lot of people
talkin’.

I'm not Jewish, so I'm sure my reasoning is slightly different than Ben's or Josh's or many other bloggers.  But I think Jonathan Mark pretty much summed up how I feel about Webb's statements.

"The point is that expressions from Christianity are embedded in American
English, and people use them without thinking, and furthermore there is no
reason not to use them even if one realizes that the expressions are of
Christian origin.

That is the nature of language. Often you will hear non-Jews say that
something is 'not Kosher.' "

I've said things aren't Kosher before, and I've been in a synagogue only
three times in my life.  "Anti-Christ" is a phrase in American English that
means a "very bad dude."  I’ve used it before many a time in non-religious
contexts.

I guess using a phrase with Christian-theology origins to a Jewish person is
a serious taboo.  I wasn’t aware of this.  Apparently, everybody had a
meeting in which they decided that cultures can’t share references with each other, and I wasn’t invited.  I hate it when I don’t go to those things, I
always miss something important!

Now, for the meat of it all.  As for Kenney’s comments, along with
others…wow.  Just wow.  I was kind of amazed, actually, that somebody would somebody would say something like that.  I, in no way saw the post as “Jewbaiting.”  Here’s the post:

I mostly saw it as Ben calling out a BS on somebody using a bogus analogy
that he couldn’t have possibly come up with through personal experiment. 
I’d never say “It’s like jumping off a skyscraper without a parachute.” 
Clearly, as I am alive today, I have never done this.  And it would be
perfectly acceptable for somebody to call me out on it.  How can I compare
something to something else if I don’t know what I’m talking about?

What Ben, and many other bloggers have done, have just called Harris out on something that was clearly contrived by the campaign instead of Harris
himself.  Repulicans have done the same things for Webb recently
(cough…cough…combatboots…cough).  Nothing more than that.  It shouldn’t even be a big deal.  The fact that people made it more than that is just
ridiculous.  I still think that an apology is in order.

Feel free to flame below.

P.S.On a lighter note, props to Kilo and Dotson for amending/taking down links after this whole “Jewbaiting” thing began.  That was classy, and a cool thing to do.

Comments

[Webb Defeats Allen]

Dis-Honorable mention is due Alice Marshall who was the first blogger to pitch a fit over Webb's use of the phrase. We can't be sure whether she was acting on Miller's behalf, but we can be sure that Miller has been itching to use the smear of "anti-Semitism" to bludgen opponents.

Miller is unelectable in Virginia not because he's jewish but because he's a lobbyist who has completely alienated labor.

That's the wrong enemy for a Virginia Democrat to have. Who do you think calls, knocks on doors, and stuffs envelopes? Without labor Miller would need $50 Million to make this race competitive. He doesn't have it.

The fact that Miller is WIDELY RECOGNIZED by out-of-work IT workers as "The Anti-Christ" isn't Jim Webb's fault, and ignorant fools like Marshall and Kenney can't wish Miller's enemies away by creating smears against Webb.

[Dannyboy]

I gave Alice an Honorable Mention last week. She took her post down, so I think we can forgive and forget.

[thegools]

Though it was her original post that was picked up by the "weenie" bloggers listed above, Alice Marshall is to be commended for having the decency of almost immediately withdrawing her original post.

[AWCheney]

I still think it should have been Chapman.

[charles R.]

Danny-boy, \

Watch where you're throwing those charges, check your facts, and try to do better next time.

I never HAD a link to take down. I didn't do the "jew-baiting" thing. I took offense to Webb calling another human being the "anti-christ", just as I took offense last year when Senator Salazar called the Focus on the Family group "the Anti-christs".

When Ben posted the next day to remind us that jews don't go "to church", that seemed an odd thing coming off Webb calling miller anti-christ. I said so.

You can be certain that if Allen called Miller the anti-christ, or pointed out that Miller didn't go to church, the apologists here would be up in arms.

Your assertion that you can't use an analogy you haven't personally experienced is remarkable, to say the least. People use analogies every day -- have ever actually been "up the creek without a paddle"?

Does anybody here believe that Miller has NO IDEA what happens in a church, that he has never taken part in a service anywhere that had a choir, or that he couldn't possibly understand that a church doesn't make a new believer their choir director?

As I said at the time, I didn't care what meaning Ben had -- I figured what he meant and noted he was dead wrong -- but I could see a deeper meaning in the comment than Ben could have meant.

We often say things in good faith only to learn later that the words could easily be misconstrued. Some people take that opportunity to change the way they said something. Others apologize and explain they didn't mean it.

It takes a true victim to, in that circumstance, turn around and claim that he is the aggrieved party.

If Shaun went overboard, that doesn't mean there wasn't a legitimate complaint about what NLS said.

I post here only because I refuse to let any thread that casts aspersions on my posts based on a false association with others go unanswered.

.

[Not Ben]

Does saying that Miller can't make a church reference because he's Jewish qualify for Weenie of the Week?

[charles R.]

thegool, I don't know who Alice Marshall is. I heard of Webb's comments when I watched the debate.

And I didn't know at the time that Miller was Jewish. I learned that when I came here and found the discussion.

And I'm dissappointed, but maybe not surprised, that so many Webb supporters not only forgive him for calling a fellow human being "anti-christ", but actually defending the use and claiming the smear for their own.

If you who do so understood what the "Anti-Christ" really is, you might think twice about throwing it around. THAT was what my post at MY blog was about. That Miller is Jewish is something that NLS seems to have wanted to make clear -- I learned it here first.

[charles R.]

Oh, and Danny-boy:

What Ben, and many other bloggers have done, have just called Harris out on something that was clearly contrived by the campaign instead of Harris
himself.

A person willing to make a claim like that has no business passing judgment on someone else's insensitive or hateful language.

I don't know what you were thinking, but that statement is just another ringing out "Miller is Jewish, so he can't understand us Christians. Vote for Webb".

If you can't see that in your own words, it's no wonder you can't see the problem with what NLS said.

[Dannyboy]

Charles:
I was more upset at your quote. That's all.

As for "not being able to make a church reference", of course he's allowed to. It's a free country, isn't it? Just don't be surprised when somebody questions you on it. I personally think it was designed to appeal to religious voters. I don't ssee the big hub-bub over Miller's statement...or Webb's, for that matter.

As for throwing around the anti-Christ "smear", I can say that I'm a proud Christian, and I know exactly what the "anti-Christ" is. But I don't take my religion so seriously as to think every time somebody uses "anti-christ" they mean it literally. I've used the phrase "you're a saint" before. That doesn't mean I think that the person deserves to be canonized. It's an expression that is merely derived from Christian Theology. I don't think that Webb meant Harris was literally the anti-Christ, Charles.

"Miller is Jewish, so he can't understand us Christians. Vote for Webb".

You're the one inferring this, dude. I didn't. I'm sure many others didn't as well. You appear to be reading way too deep between the lines. You know what I think Webb was doing? Using a strong term people would get. An anti-Christ is absolutely bad. Therefore, if Harris Miller is the anti-Christ of outsourcing, he is a very bad man because of his reckless support of outsourcing of American jobs.

[Dannyboy]

P.S.
It's Dannyboy. No hyphen.

Lets call this like it is: Ben was looking for an excuse to bash Miller. He saw the choir quote (and of course it was contrived by the campaign, that's what he's paying them for), knew Miller was Jewish, and stupidly jumped on it.

It was a tacky quote by Miller. It was a tackier and stupider post by Ben. It's not Jewbaiting or Christian bashing. You've all looked pretty damned stupid over the whole thing. Weenie of the week nothing: everyone who's jumped on either side of this bandwagon should feel just a little bit dumber than they were a few weeks ago.

So congrats, you're all Weenies. Well done.

[Dannyboy]

Anon 12:33-

Good post. Seriously. You shouldn't post that anonymously.

Well if I put my name, Ben would probably spend the next six months naming me "weenie of the week" for a whole host of ridiculous reasons. So I'll stick with Anon.

But thank you!!!

[Not Larry Sabato]

Stick with the screen name you used when you commented a couple of weeks ago then.

[KilgoreTrout]

"As for "not being able to make a church reference", of course he's allowed to. It's a free country, isn't it? Just don't be surprised when somebody questions you on it."

Wow. I think that sentence explains your stance right there. Don't be surprised?

You're a schmuck. Oh wait, I can't say that cause I'm not jewish.

I think you all need to ease up on the "Dannyboy bashing." He is oviously the weakest regular contributor to the NLS blog but he tries very hard.

He may not be very good and he lets his bias get in the way of well-reasoned thought but he is better than 1 or 2 Virginia political bloggers out there.

So please folks, ease up on Dannyboy.

[Not Larry Sabato]

I have to say the IP that made that last comment has been bashing me for months, so I am THRILLED to give "worst" off to Dannyboy! :) I'm holding you to that 1107 anon.

[Anonymous Is A Woman]

Alice Marshall is to be commended for taking down the offensive post almost immediately. She also withdrew a comment from my blog on this topic and it clearly stated that it was withdrawn at the request of the Miller campaign.

And Alice confirmed for me that they did ask her to remove any reference to the Anti-Christ statement being Jewbaiting.

Truth told, I think everybody with any sense of responsibility, in both campaigns, would like to just see this whole ugly incident go away.

Jewbaiting and Christian-baiting have no place in Virginia politics or in American politics. Neither do race or gender baiting.

At this point, can we please move on to serious issues?

NLS - I wished you well when you were sick, I praised you when did some good number crunching and I bashed you when you stretched your attacks beyond the realm of reality and all fairness. Perhaps more good analysis and thoughtful pieces and less unreasonable attacking will get you more praise from me and others.

anon:11:07

PS. Do you really check all ISPs of people who comment? I am not sure how that works but it sounds kind of strange.

[Not Larry Sabato]

I don't check ISPs, I check IPs. Actually "check" is a bad word, because typepad does it for me. When I log in to view a comment, it shows me the previous ones made from that IP. Basically, I use that to make sure people don't talk to themselves under different screen names in a thread.

[Dannyboy]

It seems Weenie of the Week is just a bad gig. Somebody is going to be pissed no matter who I choose.

[charles R.]

Dannyboy,I apologize for the hyphen.

And for being a bit "strident". It's just that I don't believe I was "jew-baiting", I didn't use the word, and Miller's "jewishness" was raised by Ben.

And I've read enough left-wing blogs and commentators to knoe that the phrase "he doesn't go to church" is attacked as a code-word for "he's not one of us". Of course, that charge is invariably leveled at republicans who use the phrase -- I understand that democrats are incapable of any evil intent.

Soyes, I am actually sensitive to the phrase "he doesn't go to church" levelled at a person of the jewish faith -- they most certainly DO go to church.

Actually, what's REALLY funny is that Jewish people go to synagogues, not "churches" in its exlusive form -- But, on the other hand, Jews DO HAVE CHOIRS.

Therefore, Ben saying Miller couldn't use the choir analogy because "he didn't go to church" was a falacious argument, the "didn't go to church" was superfluous, and therefore raises questions as to why it was brought up at all?

Or is Ben saying that Miller doesn't go to Synagogue? I don't know anymore.

What exactly was Ben's point about "miller not going to church"? The whole thing made no sense -- and therefore was clearly open to alternative interpretation.

[Not Larry Sabato]

I have been in reform synagogues, in conservative ones, and even in orth. ones. I have never seen a choir. That having been said, I'd attend more regurally if mine did.

[jason]

Charles - You and I have been making the same argument for over a week now and no one has yet to address it short of threats. I say just let it be.