JARDING goes NUTS

The Webb campaign issued a press release from Steve Jarding today.  It was the most bizarre thing I have ever seen in a campaign.

To set this up- Jim Webb announced earlier this week he opposed to flag burning amendment for 1st Amendment reason. 
George Allen, of course blasted that position. 

Then today, Steve Jarding challenged the right of a United States Senator to speak out on this issue????  He managed to completely undercut his own candidate's position on the amendment since it was based on the right to free speech. 
But incumbent Senators don't share that right, Steve?!

From the release:

"George Felix Allen Jr. and his bush-league lapdog, Dick Wadhams, have not earned the right to challenge Jim Webb’s position on free speech and flag burning."...

"Jarding continued, “The following is why George Felix Allen Jr. has not earned the right to challenge Jim Webb in his support of our Constitution and its free speech provisions:"

First of all Steve, no one has to EARN any right in our constitution.  So get that straight right now. 

Steve Jarding, you do not determine who gets certain constitutional rights.

Second of all, if we did have to earn the right to speak- George Allen certainly did when he received 1,420,460 votes to represent Virginia in the United States Senate.

Outrageous.

UPDATE:  Raising Kaine says Wadhams goes Nuts.  Heh.
Richmond Indy thinks the key to a Webb win is "Felix"

Comments

[HokieAnnie]

Outrageous? Yeah that you think it is. Allen's camp questioning the patriotism of Webb while Felix sat out the war is outrageous.

[winconservative]

This kind of professionalism coming from Webb's campaign is really going to help Webb get elected, right??? We are really supposed to take this guy seriously What a joke.

[winconservative]

This kind of professionalism coming from Webb's campaign is really going to help Webb get elected, right??? We are really supposed to take this guy seriously What a joke.

[UVA08]

winconservative... almost as porfessional as questioning someone's patriotism

[bs]

So what did Allen say? My guess as most Republicans he immediatly challenged Webb's patriotism and that my friend is the bullshit. He did not earn the right to challenge his patriotism or his position. It would be fine if he simply told us his position but I doubt that is what he did. I am not around to watch this race. So lay the whole story out for us. Stop trying to blow shit up so people will come to your little blog and get all stirred up and make you feel important.

[JB]

Agreed! Afterall, Gerry Connolly had the right to tell tax payers that 1 million dollars + over 5 years wasn't a lot of money to bail developers out. Oh my!

[JB]

Agreed! Afterall, Gerry Connolly had the right to tell tax payers that 1 million dollars + over 5 years wasn't a lot of money to bail developers out. Oh my!

[Mason Conservative]

Um, AnnieHokie (post #1) I certainly respect your right to speak out for Webb, I must remind you of something. I hate to break it to you but Webb is 6 years older than Allen. So in 1968, at the Tet Offensive, Allen was only 16 years old or a sophomore in high school. I'm just saying that going after Allen on Vietnam might be a little much because he was born in 1952--a wee bit too young to serve.

[Mason Conservative]

For Allen's official response to Webb's position on the flag:

http://www.georgeallen.com/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=hgITL5PKJtH&b=1612661&ct=2690145

There was not one word mentioned about questioning Webb's patriotism. Thats liberal paranoia being constantly used to try and make Webb criticism-proof from Allen. The political tactic they took is to lump Webb with Kennedy, Schumer, and Kerry. Stop throwing that "questioning his patriotism" line out, nobody is doing anything like that--its a cheap trick to try and protect the novice Webb from political criticism.

Wow, I would think that it would be refreshing to see a democratic veteran standing up for himself after Kerry. Webb is not letting himself be swiftboated.

The draft was discontinued in 1973...Allen was 21...he was certainly not too young to serve, but that's not the point is it? The point is George Allen, with no military experience whatsoever, is challenging the patriotism of a veteran who served as Secretary of the Navy under President Reagan. This man put his life on the line to serve his country and George Allen didn't, yet Allen questions Webb's patriotism. That's outrageous.

[AnnieHokie]

Mason Conservative? Do the math -- Allen was 18 in 1970 and the war was still being faught. Your argument works better for someone a tad younger, say John Edwards who didn't dodge the draft because there was little risk of being drafted by the time he was 18.

[lenny]

You are the one who is outrageous, Ben. When the Allen campaign calls into question the patriotism of a war hero like Jim Webb, I would be hitting all cylinders myself.

Ben, take your time and carefully read Allen's press release attacking Webb.

You shoot your mouth too often without thinking.

[Bill Kuster]

Let's be clear: Quarterback Felix dodged the draft and disrespected this country and its flag by doing so.

[winconservative]

What a joke? This response by NLS must really hurt you guys. Webb's service in the military does NOT make him immune to criticism. Allen just pointed out the Webb voted with John Kerry and Ted Kennedy on this amendment. You you guys embarrassed about this???

[LAS]

It may be outrageous, but it works for me. Cut that Swiftboat crap right off at the knees.

The problem is the Allens of the world are promoting bullshit and they know it. We have REAL problems in this country--there's a freaking WAR going on, you know?--and all they seem to care about is the 3 -4 flags burned every year, gay marriage, and Terry Schiavo.

You want to have a debate about flag burning? Can you tell us why it is important to have a constitutional amendment banning it WITHOUT calling the other person unpatriotic, America-hating, lefty loon? How about a REASONED discussion of why you support it?

I've actually heard General Clark promote this position--I didn't agree with him, but I could understand his point, which he made, by the way, without trying to make the rest of us out to be a bunch of commies.

[Not Harry F. Byrd, Sr.]

Dick Wadams is a GOP hatchet man. He destroyed Tom Daschle, saved Conrad Burns last time, and he was called Karl Rove's Heir Apparent in 2005:

http://www.slate.com/id/2120558/?nav=navoa

Jarding is trying to soften up the reistance some because they know what's coming. It's a bit of an extreme response, but it is Jarding's shot across Wadams' bow and a warning against swiftboating. That's my take.

[Webb the Duck]

Let's be clear: Quarterback Felix dodged the draft and disrespected this country and its flag by doing so just like Bill Clinton did. Going to college is not draft dodging.

[lenny]

winconservative:

What is there for Webb to be embarassed about? He is his own man and not a lapdog like George Felix Allen 97% Bush.

This has got to the most pathetic post by NLS in a long while.

[winconservative]

In my opinion Wadams was not trying to swiftboat. He just pointed out Webb's democratic credidentials. All he did was point out that Webb voted with Kerry and Kennedy. Sen. Allen is entitled to his opinions. Is Webb embarrassed to be affiliated with Kennedy and Kerry?

It's an anti swiftboat mine. So what?

[Mason Conservative]

So you can understand General Clarke's position on flag burning without questioning his patriotism, but Allen and his supporters like me can't do the same thing? I guess you have more self control than I do.

I'm still waiting for a direct quote of Allen challenging Webb's patriotism beside paranoid heresay by Webb's funloving internet fans.

As to the age thing, I guess your right. I can accept that. So can I gather you are now questioning Allen's patriotism?

What kind of crazy "who's more patrotic than you" pissing match have we gotten ourselves into here?

[Vets for Allen]

I didn\'t fight for the flag so you libs could have the right to burn it.

[Mason Conservative]

BTW, can I ask all of you what you think about Bill Clinton? I mean, if we are going to talk about draft-dodging. If Allen is a dodger for being in, you know, college and a bit young, what does that mean about Clinton? Is there a difference? If your going to go after Allen for his lack of service, did Clinton's lack of service concern you when he ran against two WWII combat veterans?

[Charles]

Since Allen's response said NOTHING about Webb's patriotism or his service, those who are arguing that are simply making things up.

Allen said Webb took the same position as those who endorsed him in this race. Which was the truth.

Jarding needs this to be about Allen saying bad things about Webb, so he seems to be making it up since Allen isn't doing it.

At least with the Webb/Miller stuff, it was true that Miller was saying bad things about Webb. I wondered how Webb's campaign would handle a candidate who DIDN'T, and now we see how Jarding wants to handle it.

NLS, I commend you for posting this, I know it can't be easy for you. I also hope that my words fall on deaf ears, and those attacking you are echoed in the Webb camp, because I don't want them to get your message.

[lenny]

"So you can understand General Clarke's position on flag burning without questioning his patriotism, but Allen and his supporters like me can't do the same thing? I guess you have more self control than I do"

What a dumb statement. Where in the world have you heard any Democrat question Wes Clark's patriotism? Democrats do not stoop as low as you republicans do. Anyone who disagrees with you and does not follow Dear Leader Bush is automatically branded a traitor.

This election cycle, your swiftboat tactics ain't gonna fly. Nope. Today, Dick Wadham has been served fair warning against any low brow attacks on Jim Webb.

[Vetrinarians for Webb]

We don't heal dogs so you right wing nuts can re-elect them to the Senate.

[Webb Defeats Allen]

How many interceptions did George Allen throw the day that Jim Webb earned his Navy Cross?

Anyone?

[winconservative]

One again none of the far left liberals that post here have answered my question. Why are you so upset at Allen for pointing out the fact that Webb agrees with Kennedy and Kerry? It is not unpatriotic to point this out. It is the complete truth. No swiftboating here.

Jim Webb fights for the flag. George Allen just waves it.

[winconservative]

Are you guys afraid to answer the question????

The question is : why Allen?

[lenny]

I have a question for you Ben. Do you know that the Republicans are now calling John Murtha a traitor and unpatrotic? His crime? Calling for US troops to be immediately deployed out of Iraq.

Tell me, do you think such calls for Murtha's head began overnight? Nooo. When you don't serve clear warning to anyone who wants to damage your credibility including that of war heroes and veterans as some in the GOP are more than inclined to do without shame, expect your character and everything you stand for to be dragged in the mud.

[Mason Conservative]

The WebbHeads have NOTHING on Allen over this patriotism stuff, so what do they do?

"How many interceptions did George Allen throw the day that Jim Webb earned his Navy Cross"

Well, since Allen was a terrible QB, I imagine he threw alot of INTS while Webb was bravely serving his country. What on earth does this have to do with anything now? You see, like Charles articulately pointed out, the Webbies can only win if someone is attacking him. Allen isn't. All his ads are positive and about his record. Wadhams is going after Webb's statements in the political realm. To this day, I have yet to hear ONE person in the Allen campaign, candidate on down, say anything about Webb's patriotism. But I guess for you guys if you say it enough times, it jsut might become true.

--Lenny, let me explain what I meant there. LAS said that Republicans can't talk about the flag issue without questioning someone's patriotism, but then he said he heard Clarke advocate it and said that he respectfully disagreed. All I was saying is that how can LAS claim to respectfully disagree with Clarke, but somehow Republicans can't. I was not saying Democrats where questioning Clarke's incredible service to America. Nobody should do that and I'm sorry if it sounded like that was what I was going for.

[winconservative]

Good idea, when democrats in Va don't have an answer they attempt to change the subject. I am sure Webb will be playing dodgeball just like this for the next 5 months.

[Webb Defeats Allen]

When your only tool is a hammer, the whole world looks like a nail. Since Dick Wadhams and George Felix Allen Jr. live their lives confusing principles and politics, it's only reasonable that they'd conflagrate Webb's principled position defending the Constitution with a cheap political ploy.

Ben, Jarding wasn't making an argument, he was making a statement... Something like "Don't Tread On Me".

[Mason Conservative]

The reason Republicans are pissed at Murtha is that he declared American marines killed Iraqi citizens in cold blood without presuming their innocence, which is their right under the law. As a former marine that Murtha is, it boggles the minds of simpletons like me why he would do that?

Did you say "dodge" ball ?
http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dodger0up.jpg

[winconservative]

Allen is not embarrassed by President Bush or his fellow republicans but I guess Webb is embarrassed by Kennedy and Kerry and the democratic progressive establishment at least until fundraising time comes back around.

[Mason Conservative]

Still waiting on someone to tell me exactly where and when Senator George Felix Allen questioned James H. Webb's patriotism . . .

(btw, that Dodger picture is actually pretty clever)

[GinterParked]

NLS... gotta say your position is curious. Jarding's tone mirrored Wadhams perfectly, and Wadhams shot first.

From my perspective, I'm quite pleased that this candidate will not allow his opponents to warp his proud and exemplary service record with innuendo and misdirection. What did Pogo say? "We has seen the enemy, and he is us." I'm tired of being polite while I'm being assaulted.

If you're concerned that Jarding's comment diminished the traditional level of political discourse in Virginia, I think you're wrong. I think the ghosts of Bill Tuck, Albertis Harrison and Mills Godwin, together with Jim Gilmore and Bob McDonnell would agree with me.

This election will be extraordinarily rude... in both statewide campaigns. I'm not pulling punches in either. This year, I'd rather win than be polite.

[JPTERP]

I love the aggrevied stance from far-right GOPers. For years Democratic veterans have been attacked by the far right as traitors simply because they're Democrats--John Kerry, John Murtha, Max Cleland, Wes Clark and now Jim Webb have all received the same disgusting treatment--and except for their Republican veteran colleages in the Senate-- we've heard nothing but silence from the rest of the far-right.

In the past 16 years I haven't heard a single attack from the left on the patriotism of guys like John McCain, John Warner, Colin Powell, or Bob Dole simply because they are Republicans. We may disagree with them at times, but at least we can still recognize the value of their military service.

As to this nonsense about Allen not questioning Webb's patriotism, what exactly does the term "turncoat" mean to you? And who do you think started that vicious whispering campaign? In my book--that means traitor. Anyone who says that must value party loyalty above any other loyalty--which I find fundamentally disgusting and unAmerican. It's shameful that the radical right can't even take a dose of their own medicine. You boys have been serving this B.S. up for the better part of the past 6 years.

If you boys want a high level debate on the issues, let's have a high level debate on the issues.

[winconservative]

Were is is "innuendo and misdirection"? Wadams just pointed out that Webb voted with liberal democratic Sens. Kerry and Kennedy. Once again, does this embarrass Webb???

[Mason Conservative]

Still waiting . . .

All I hear is "From my perspective, I'm quite pleased that this candidate will not allow his opponents to warp his proud and exemplary service record with innuendo and misdirection."

But I hear no facts. Where are the direct quotes? GinterParked? You guys just want Allen to say something SOOOO BAD you assume he already has.

[Mason Conservative]

Hey winconservative, I don't think we are going to get any answers here. Just chest pounding bluster and anger about things not yet said. This is just liberal paranoia gone amock.

BTW, I'm still waiting , . .

[lenny]

"Why are you so upset at Allen for pointing out the fact that Webb agrees with Kennedy and Kerry"

winconservative:

Are you upset that Webb agrees with Colin Powell and the Supreme Court of the United States? What is up with you republicans and your fascination with the Clintons, the Kennedys or even John Kerry?

So you're going to tell me every vote that George Allen sided with Kerry or Ted Kennedy is an abomination of some sort? Why do you guys always resort to such juvenile reasoning patterns? Its typical of devoid minds.

Mason Conservative:

I was just wondering, since you are one of the many conservatives who enjoys bringing Bill Clinton into almost every argument no matter how you have to spin the issue in order to get to that place, are you and your dwindling party going to mind when we blame the Bush administartion for years to come?

Doesn't the six degrees of Bill Clinton game ever get tired or old to you?

[winconservative]

I guess when you don't have an answer the next best thing to do is resort to namecalling.

[LAS]

Mason Conservative, it's General CLARK, not Clarke.

Yes, I can respectfully disagree with Clark, because he respects ME. If you are claiming that you and your ilk are capable of treating anyone who disagrees with you with anything less than disdain, disrespect and disgust, well, you must think we've all been sleeping the last 6 years.

Case in point: McCain, Cleland, Kerry--the list goes on and on. And now you're whining because Webb decides to be the Democrat who doesn't take it lying down?

Cut the swiftboating off at the knees--good on you, Mr. Jarding! Send Felix back to the fancified, Frenchie dude ranch in Nevada! Hoo-ray!

[Mason Conservative]

Lenny, thats not whats going on here. What we are wondering is how you guys on the left can turn this:

“James H. Webb, Jr. continues to demonstrate he is totally beholden to the liberal Washington Senators who dragged him across the line in the Democratic primary,” said Dick Wadhams, campaign manager for U.S. Senator George Allen’s reelection campaign. “By announcing his opposition to the Flag Protection Amendment, James H. Webb, Jr. puts himself firmly on the side of John Kerry, Ted Kennedy and Charles Schumer.”

Into this:

ALLEN QUESTIONS WEBB'S PATRIOTISM. HOW DARE HE! HE SERvED IN 'NAM WHILE ALLEN WAS THROWING INTERCEPTIONS! WADDHAMS IS A LAP DOG AND ALLEN IS DESPICABLE! OH THE HUMANITY!

Is that the right English to liberal translation?

Still waiting for the evidence . . .

If you're waiting for answers to loaded questions, you're waiting for Godot.

Namecalling? The party is dwindling. That's a fact.

[Mason Conservative]

What loaded question? My question is simple? Where and when did George Allen question James Webb's patriotism?

[lenny]

winconservative:

Yeah, as if maligning Kerry or Ted Kennedy and anyone who votes with them (including your man, George Felix Allen Jr.) is not name calling. The shear hyprocrisy.

[winconservative]

Why not have a big Webb fundraiser in Richmond or DC with Kerry,Kennedy, Murtha, Pelsosi, and Clinton? I'll tell you why. Because Webb is completely embarrassed to be associated with members of the same party he is attempting to associate himself with. Webb's campaign teams best plan is to plant lies about Sen. Allen and pray to God people believe them. Just like this last press release. Kudo's to NLS for pointing out the inconsistency of this press release even though he is arguably the biggest Webb supporter in the blogosphere.

[John Dalton]

In all of these posts, we are yet to see any of the Webbies point out the specific language in George Allen's press release that questions Webb's patriotism. In the follow-up, Allen advisor Chris LaCivita even went so far as to say that Webb's wartime record was "above reproach."

Webb's service is honorable, and as an American I thank him for all that he has done. But, that does not relieve him of the resposibility to enagage in debate on issues, and it does not make his views sacrosanct.

It is so obvious that this is simply an attempt by the Webbies to deflect attention from Webb's position, which is out of step with many Virginians.

[Mason Conservative]

"Doesn't the six degrees of Bill Clinton game ever get tired or old to you?"

It rarely takes six degrees to get to where we need to get, so no, it doesn't get old. :-)

"are you and your dwindling party going to mind when we blame the Bush administartion for years to come?"

I fully anticipate it!

[Webb Defeats Allen]

George Felix Allen Jr. is completely controlled by the extreme conservative movement that completely owns him: Lock, stock, two smoking barrels, mind, body, and soul. He doesn't have the leeway to make a single independent stand, so he lashes out at Webb, who only takes considered, independent, principled stands.

Dick Wadham's statement was just fundraising fodder. He might as well have added Jane Fonda and Howard Dean to the list, the way George Felix Allen Jr. does in EVERY SINGLE FUNDRAISING LETTER.

Why not mention Bob Kerrey, Max Cleland, or Wes Clark? Why not mention Colin Powell for that matter? Why not? Because when you've sold your soul to a failed movement, you can't stand to see anyone with real principles, real patriotism, and real leadership actually take a stand.

The true suffering of Hell in the knowledge of your exclusion from Heaven.

For Dick Wadhams to imply that Webb is somehow beholdent to these respected senators is an insult to the free will of a soldier to serve a nation, the free will of a parent to cherish a child, the free will of any American to take a stand.

Allen's never faced anything like Jim Webb before. He's used to being the outsider, fighting against the system, now he's the system, and he doesn't even see the golden chains that bind him.

Jim Webb is the wakeup.

[lenny]

winconservative:

Why doesn't George Felix Allen Jr. have a fundraiser with Tom Tancredo, Tom Delay, Ralph Reed, Jerry Falwell, Lincoln Chafee?

Answer that and I'll give you an answer.

“James H. Webb, Jr. continues to demonstrate he is totally beholden to the liberal Washington Senators who dragged him across the line in the Democratic primary,” said Dick Wadhams, campaign manager for U.S. Senator George Allen’s reelection campaign. “By announcing his opposition to the Flag Protection Amendment, James H. Webb, Jr. puts himself firmly on the side of John Kerry, Ted Kennedy and Charles Schumer.”

[GinterParked]

Mason & Win: Take a hike dudes. My comment was directed to Ben. I personally address few comments to actual supporters of George Felix Allen, Jr. Especially those who attempt to hold him up as a paragon of civility. After all, my teeth aren't soft, nor is my throat whiny.

[LAS]

Mason Conservative, you want evidence? Facts? Dude, where have you been? You guys have taught us that facts are irrelevent. Evidence is whatever you want it to be.

You're just pissed because Webb called you on your own swiftboating bullsh*t. It was a warning shot across the bow. Good on him.

Tell Mr. Dickwad that when he presents a reasoned argument on ANY issue, we'll do the same. But with the Swiftboat/Death Penalty guys in power, that's unlikely to happen. You covered the ground in manure, and then complain when your boots get dirty.

HOO-RAY!

[winconservative]

Webb Defeats Allen:

I take your answer as an acknowldgement that Webb is actually embarrassed by the national leadership of the democratic party. This will really help when he needs these guys help during fundraising time.

[winconservative]

LAS:

I guess you are the typical Webb supporter.
You can't answer questions so you just call people names like a spoiled child or in this case a helpless democrat.

Did Webb take money from Abramoff like Allen did?

[lenny]

winconservative:

I heard Tom DeLay is now officially in town for good. Can we expect Tom Delay to have a fundraiser with George Felix Allen Jr.?

waiting.......

[Webb Defeats Allen]

You also take George W. Bush to be a successful president and George Allen to be a leader.

After Webb Defeats Allen, how about I take you out for a beer.

[Mason Conservative]

Lenny,

Because Tom Tancredo and Jerry Fallwell are nuts, DeLay and Reed might be going to jail, and Chafee is to the left of Hillary--of course Allen won't do a fundraiser with them. (But he might have, who knows).

The difference is that Allen did not rely on their endorsements for his candidacy. Webb relied on those folks to pull him across the finish line--but he seems to not want to admit it. So if Kerry and Schumer;s endorsements were so appreciated, why won't they come to Richmond for a fundraiser?

[winconservative]

If Tom Delay were a sitting Congressman he would probably host a fundraiser. Clinton, Murtha, Kerry, and Kennedy currently hold elected office and Webb is embarrassed by leaderhip in his own party.

Becasue Webb ~isn't~ beholden to Kennedy?

[Not Larry Sabato]

That's crap Mason Conservative. I pulled him across the finish line, not those people.

:)

[Webb Defeats Allen]

Nice party you've built for yourself there, Mason.

No wonder Republicans, seeking real leadership, a real vision for the future, and real hope that all our children's lives can be better, are deserting your foundering Party in droves.

[winconservative]

The national democratic "establishment" essentially won the nomination for Webb and now he is "cutting and running" from these guys. Very good strategy but not so good if you want to continue to get their money.

I am anxiously awaiting a joint press conference with the national democratic leadership by Webb's side.

Webb won it with vision and volunteers.

[Mason Conservative]

I asked the question for someone to tell me when and where Allen ever questioned Webb's patriotism. Not if other people had done it, not if this happened all the time. Thats not what I was asking. But instead of a real answer, I get these gems:

"Mason Conservative, you want evidence? Facts? Dude, where have you been? You guys have taught us that facts are irrelevent. Evidence is whatever you want it to be.

You're just pissed because Webb called you on your own swiftboating bullsh*t. It was a warning shot across the bow. Good on him.

Tell Mr. Dickwad that when he presents a reasoned argument on ANY issue, we'll do the same. But with the Swiftboat/Death Penalty guys in power, that's unlikely to happen. You covered the ground in manure, and then complain when your boots get dirty.

HOO-RAY!"

--Classy, the whole "Dickweed" comment and the swearing.

and then this:
" I personally address few comments to actual supporters of George Felix Allen, Jr. Especially those who attempt to hold him up as a paragon of civility. After all, my teeth aren't soft, nor is my throat whiny."

I don't actually see an answer coming my way . .WHY? Becasue Allen nor anyone from his campaign has ever said anything about Webb.

In fact, while I'm going here, this entire thread is littered with namecalling and Allen bashing of the kind that Webbheads accuse GOP of doing.

Not ONCE has me or winconservative or any other conservative in this thread referred to Webb by anything other than his given name. I have more respect for him than any of you realize, but that does not make his politics infallabl

[lenny]

Mason:

"Chafee is to the left of Hillary--of course Allen won't do a fundraiser with them."

Funny how you choose to pick your arguments. If Chafee can't fundraise with Allen, by what standard do you want Pelosi to fundraise with Webb?

As for endorsements, last I heard many republicans like Tom Kean jr in New Jersey and Mark Kennedy in Minnnesota (GOP senate candidates in blue states) are running away from President Bush.

What is good for the goose, is good for the gander.

[Webb Defeats Allen]

The great thing about the arguments of Win and Mason is that they are completely devoid of principle and only based on pure politics. There's no vision, no leadership, in the likes of George Walker Bush, George Felix Allen Jr., and the other extreme right-wing conservatives who own the Republican party. There's only gamesmanship. Winning at all costs. Who cares about the future of America when you hold the reigns of power today.

You two, prove the point that right-wing conservatism has failed America. Because you, like George Felix Allen Jr., provide no leadership and no vision for a Secure America of Liberty and Opportunity. You made big promises, but ruled by proclaiming a vision of greed, ignorance, and hatred.

For you this is a game, for Jim Webb this is the future of America.

[winconservative]

I should also say I respect Mr. Webb's military background but I also disagree with his press release blasting Allen for essentially nothing. Once again, I am not disrespecting Mr. Webb's patriotism. He did a real service to the county. I support Allen because I agree with his conservative principles NOT because I hate Webb.

[Mason Conservative]

"That's crap Mason Conservative. I pulled him across the finish line, not those people.

:)"

My mistake. :-)

"Mark Kennedy in Minnnesota (GOP senate candidates in blue states) [is] running away from President Bush."

Damn. Webb does stand with Kennedy. I'm sorry Mason!

[James Young]

Great, fair-minded post, Ben. At the risk of being accused of a**-kissing, it's one reason why you're a must-read on both sides of the aisle.

[Mason Conservative]

Well Webb Defeats Allen, when I attend my next cabinet meeting I'll be sure to let all of my fellow Republicans in power know how you feel.

This is the usual liberal dodgespeak. I wasn't talking about vision or anything like that to begin with. I've been sitting here through endless reruns of Law & Order on USA just waiting for someone to tell me when and where Allen attacked Webb's patriotism. And yet, somehow WDA thinks I'm going for some high-minded visionary discussion. I'm not. I'm just looking for some facts.

But since they don't exist, I guess you guys have to go on and on on the Hate-Bush, Hate-Allen matras that worked SO well in 2002 and 2004.

If you guys want to talk about principled differences in the vision of the future of this country, we can rumble. Thats fine. I live for it. But all I'm asking is for one question to be answered.

I guess I called you all on it, and you've got nothing so you attack Bush, Allen, conservatives, and everything else to try and make is sound like maybe Allen might have somewhere let out a little whisper that Webb was unpatriotic. But he hasn't.

Mason, Repubs attack Dems on patriotism. Allen campaign attacks saying Webb is like senate Dems.

Can you read between the lines?

[Mason Conservative]

I think we are getting a weeeeeee bit paranoid here. If you are going to accuse Allen of challenging anyones patriotism and take that to the good people of Virginia, you'll need more than:

"Repubs attack Dems on patriotism. Allen campaign attacks saying Webb is like senate Dems.

Can you read between the lines?"

[Doug in Mount Vernon]

Must read on both sides? HA!!

NLS, stick to the election returns analysis which I think you are typically brilliant at doing.

Because, as usual, your political instincts are awful.

Talk about a**-kissing, why do you constantly try to prop up the winger hopes with ridiculous drivel like this?

Go Jarding, GREAT response.

[Raging Dem]

Ben Tribbet, nice post...for another tool of the Allen campaign. Are you being paid by Dickie Wadhams or just being given kickbacks by your conservative friends. Remember, this is a contact sport and your teeth are not always going to remain in their mouth.

[Thomas Paine Patriot]

Why is the Webb campaign letting George Allen set the agenda on a Senate vote that was nothing more than red meat for the GOP base?

Webb should have deflected the blow by saying "I have too much respect for the Constitution to allow senators like Republican George Allen to use the flag amendment as a political prop. It's one more effort to deflect attention away from the Iraq War..."

And that's all Webb should have said about flag burning and constitutional amendments. Why make this GOP political ploy larger than life by playing Allen's straight man?

This wasn't swift-boating. Allen was playing politics 101 out of the GOP playbook.

Webb must define his issues in this campaign, highlight Allen's faults, and stay on his message, not his opponent's.

good god, jim's in trouble! looks like it's time to whip out another endorsement!

quick, get me joe lieber---uh, scratch that one. ah, obama! yes! obama!

wait, what? we're in a general election now?

hmm.

uhhh... shrill press release? yeah, let's go with that.

phew! that was a close one.

[lenny]

TPP:

Read this. Quote from the article:

"The Allen campaign then called on Webb to announce his position, and the Webb camp sought to put that challenge in a political perspective.

"This is yet another example of deliberately divisive politics that distract Americans from the real issues that are facing our country," Denny Todd said.

She linked the flag-burning amendment with the recent move to prohibit gay marriage as being among those divisive issues."

http://www.dailypress.com/news/dp-60158sy0jun27,0,7114217.story?coll=dp-widget-news

[Webb Defeats Allen]

In America, individuals make up their own minds and take stands based on their own personal decisions.

Wadhams attack was on Webb's patriotic indpendence.

Webb's stand was made independently. In America, that's the act of a true patriot.

[Mason Conservative]

Thomas Paine Patriot,

GREAT post, that is exactly what Webb needs to do. The problem is that Webb is still a rookie while Allen is a seasoned pro. Webb is a good candidate, but good isn't good enough in a high stakes race like this. I think the outcome of the election and the margin of victory of defeat will depend on how quick Webb can pick this stuff. But it will be awfully hard for Webb to control the debate will Allen. That is the ONE advantage Allen probably will enjoy with incumbancy.

Wadhams is not shrill? WTF?

[winconservative]

Crappy press releases like this will essentially be the reason Jarding will be looking from the outside in by the next month. A more professional staff will be needed if Webb is to surpass Allen. Jarding bit at Wadams fishing lure and totally took the bait hook line and sinker by over-reacting to a harmless press release.

Repubs don't like not being on the offensive, don't like it when they can't attack their opponents strength. Strange feeling.

the breathless tone of "webb defeats allen" reminds me of those george clooney budweiser commercials:

this is budweiser.

this is beer.

this beer was made independently. in america, that's an act of true flavor.

[Mason Conservative]

Well thats all I got, Webbheads. I've got to get too bed, and my brain hurts from all this Law & Order on TV. Good conversation. I'll check tommorow morning when I get up if anyone can actually answer my question with hard facts:

"When did George Allen attack James Webb's patriotism and what did he say?"

Sorry folks, you won't have Mason Conservative to kick around anymore.

[lenny]

I'm out of here. Ben, I'm sorry to say I'm very disappointed in you tonight. Sometimes, I think you deliberately write some controversial posts to drive up traffic to your blog. I'm sure that's the case for this very shallow post of yours.

Stick with election analysis which is where you excel.

[Webb Defeats Allen]

Thanks for proving that Conservatives think America is a game.

sick

[Virginia's Right Stuff]

The Webb campaign is being run by amateurs who have not clue as to what they're doing.

The problem is Allen is run by professional puppeteers. Give me the underfunded, popular, fighting guy anyday.

100!