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not gretchen bulova

HAHAHA.

Sad that someone would actually do this, but it seems way to out there to be made up. Hell, we should boot Allen for shooting Bambi alone!

Oh yea, forgot, he's a racist too.

Not Larry Sabato

NGB, should we start a reward fund for information that leads to the arrest of whoever stuffed a doe's head into a black family's mailbox?

not gretchen bulova

You got it wrong. We know who did it, we need to know who he did it too.


The reward would be Allen's head in November!

Kenton Ngo

Allen's head stuffed in a ballot box, of course.

not gretchen bulova

That'd be tough to do with Electronic Voting Kenton! Those machines are small

Did black people in rural Virginia do a lot of calling to the local white sheriff's office back in the early 70's? I'm guessing there was never a report of this.

Webb Defeats Allen

Guys, can't we leave this character assassination stuff behind. Jim Webb wins on issues. We don't need this stuff.

Let's talk about the war in Iraq, George Allen's inability to show any leadership in the Senate, and the fact that voted to raise his own salary 4 times for a total of nearly $32k/year, while leaving the minimum wage stagnant.

The issues are damning enough. Jim Webb is the right man to bring integrity and accountability back to the US Senate.

David

I disgree Webb defeats Allen, lets keep talking like this. It worked for Jerry Kilgore last year when he went negative (Hitler ad).

Sadly, the statute of limitations would have long since run. No hate crimes laws back then either. Fact is, we can all waste our time and have a little laugh with this but it'll lead to nothing.

Not Harry F. Byrd, Sr.

There were postal crimes. You can stick anything you like in a mailbox you know.

Kevin

What side of the head do you stick the stamp?

Why did the Washington Post article not include the Larry Sabato comments? I emailed them and asked.

And hopefully there are reporters out in the area of this farm that the deer was shot - asking questions.

Bruce

So they are investigating a crime and you are asking for help proving that any crime happened for them to investigate?

How can you "bring someone to justice" for an act you can't even prove occured?

I love the implication in Ben's original post that there was already a crime being investigated. He says "this is an active investigation AGAIN." As if this is some unsolved case that has been haunting the Louisa Sheriff's office. There never was an investigation and there won't be one now. Keep in mind, no hate crimes laws, long expired SOL for property destruction and postal crimes are federal matters having no relation to the Louisa Sheriff's office.

James Young

What a crock. Any statute of limitations on Virginia crime has almost certainly expired. There were no thought ... er, "hate" crime laws on the books thirty years ago. I told you both of these things Sunday night, Ben.

But I do know the name of one guy involved: Ken Shelton. S-H-E-L-T-O-N.

this is sad

There is no statue of limitations on murder! Do you really think the deet survived being decapitated?

Not Don Rumsfeld

That bear head did that NTS put in my mailbox. Of course the body was still attached.

Allen's fallen behind but a home run could tie it up.

Batter

With a louisville slugger?

I'm hungry, what's for lunch? Pork chops, ham sandwich? Turtle Soup?

Venison?

brimur

James: This whole right-wing notion that hate crimes are not real because they are "thought crimes" is just plain stupid. By that thinking there should be no distinction between first-degree and second-degree murder. The fact is that most crimes require a certain intent, this is known as "mens rea". So go back to the drawing board juveniles.

Turtle is not Kosher.

Drew

Really NLS, this is getting out of hand. I oppose Allen as much as anyone else, but you're getting shrill. The last two days seem like a scene out of Arthur Miller's The Crucible, and you're feuling the witch hunt. Just sit back and let some of the back and forth of credibility and debunking to settle.

Sam

Ben:

Take a chill pill and a day off. Relax. Watch TV. Read a good book. Do yoga. Calm down and start posting again when you have something intersting and constructive to say.

Drew's 100% right. This is looking more and more like a witch hunt every day. We can raise the dialog in this race back up to the level that we deserve.

Hey NLS, call John Walsh and get this thing on America's Most Wanted! The sad part is that Allen would waste a deer head. The brain and the eyballs are the most succulent parts! Throw in some fava beans and a nice chianti, and you got yourself a helluva meal.

Flash : Allen campaign hires crack lawyer to defend against mail tampering charges: Tom Hagen.

NGB:

Do a little legal research on what if any crime would have been committed?

Your student password for Lexis or westlaw should give you the ability.

It would be a good little endeavor for a law student with some spare time to kill.

this is sad

It was you Felix. I know it was you. You broke my heart. You broke my heart

Spank That Donkey

Are you people on Dope?

marco

Apparently so, Spank That Donkey, apparently so.

marco, so if we're on dope, and by being here you're in a crackhouse, aren' you a crackhead or a deerhead then?

Or is this blog like crack? highly addictive?

Dannyboy

As to the deer head story:
Unless charges were brought up against somebody when it happened, I doubt you'll find anything in LexisNexis. You'd have a better chance searching police reports, which Ben is doing. Even still, I doubt anybody reported it. This is really going to come down to who you believe: Allen or Shelton? I bet most GOP members side with Allen, and most Dems side with Shelton. The question is who the Indies believe.

Uh oh, Spankthat brought his bat.

marco

Dannyboy:
As an undergrad, I'm sure that you've had countless opportunities to use "lexis."

Here's the academic exercise: assuming the allegations are true, what, if any, crimes were committed?

Bear in mind, hate crime legislation was not on the books at the time...and any charge on that ground would be ex post facto in nature.

What about Shelton's roommate at UVA? He said he never heard of this taking place. Very odd. One would think that Shelton would have at least told his roommate.

Dannyboy

Look, I'm not interested in bringing up charges, marco. I just thin that if you find the people, you can prove it happened. Criminal or not, it was wrong.

Shelton's roomate works for Allen, anon 12:10. What do you think he's going to say?

Again, I honestly believe that this will come down to believing either Allen or Sabato/Shelton. We know who the parties believe. It's all about who the Independents believe.

I'm really interested to see a poll soon. I wouldn't be surprsied if SurveyUSA did a poll asking whether people believe the charges.

marco

dannyboy:
As someone who has prosecuted before, I can assure you that it would be impossible to (1) indict someone based on the alleged conduct, and (2) even hope to get a jury conviction. A CA would be laughed out of court for even trying.

Finally, this whole rub is a he said, he said, she said kinda thing wrapped with various lawyers of personal and political motivations promoted by two liberal publications

Sabato isn't going to get dragged into this any further than he already is.

Not Huey Long

On the relationship between Sabato and Allen. What excuse do you have now right-wingers??

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/09/sabatos_relatio_1.html

Virginia Centrist

To everyone who "Hates Allen but wants to move on."

Get ahold of yourselves. Allen stated, blankly, that he'd never used the N-word yesterday.

That's the must ludicrous lie since the "I have not had sexual relations" lie.

He deserves this. Jump on board the bus and join the team for the big win.

Isaac Bickerstaff

Do any of you rightwing numb nuts think this is about prosecution?

This is about an African American family coming forward and talking about pulling the bloody severed head of a doe fromtheir mailbox. This is about the fear they lived under for years. What were the culprits capable of if they were willing to do this?

Dannyboy

I think Isaac is on the right track. To me, it's not about law at all. It's about morallity. Whether it was illegal or not, marco, it as wrong. If that family is found, Allen is done. If not, even still he's in trouble. Why? Well, we can't prove that Allen did do this, but Allen can't prove that he didn't.

Not Huey Long

The first major newspaper that has picked up the Sabato story (at least according to my search).

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-09-26-virginia-senate_x.htm

Doug

I have to admit I am reading all this for the humor, though the subject is really pretty sad. But once Isaac used the term numb nuts, I just fell out of my chair laughing. I'm back in Animal House and planning to glue Niedermyer's toilet seat to his smarmy ass.

This story is important in that it greatly helps to reveal the hate in the heart of this man. And, because of the "macaca" incident - which we could see and hear with our own eyes - we know the hate exists present day.

However, I worry that we need to be talking issues and getting out the vote a lot more.

Dannyboy

Check out Webb's new ad, anon 12:50. It appears that the official campaign is doing just that.

Doug

Great new ad.

Doug

Oh, but the new ad does use a video of George Bush, I wonder if Laura is going to complain?

haha, one point to doug for humor

Georgie Porgie, did he lie?
Used bad words and made the girls cry,
When the press came out to play,
Georgie Porgie ran away.

Ben Tribbett is Leslie Byrnes hand Puppet

Hey Anon 12:50,

I tried getting out the vote this morning, but most folks said they didn't want to wait in line for 42 days.

As soon as you can get the MSM to print a single article about the issues, i'll be glad to talk about it.

MSM is only interested in the calumnious side of this race. Moreover, the folks interested in voting issues already have their minds made up.

Call me a pessimist if you will, but killing a doe and severing the head to put it in the mailbox of an African American family for kicks speaks to a persons lack of character and THAT IS AN ISSUE!

marco

Dannyboy:

"Why? Well, we can't prove that Allen did do this, but Allen can't prove that he didn't"

Do you see how facially absurd your comments are.

In this country, when someone makes a criminal complaint there is a burden of proof. In criminal cases, that burden is to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone committed a crime.

In civil matters, that burden is to prove beyond a preponderance of the evidence.

Anyone can make a cheap allegation?

Without proof, without evidence, without anything in support thereof, that's all this story is...a cheap allegation.

You know full well that it is nearly impossible to prove a negative. And, that's why we have burdens of proof.

In a broad sense, this isn't about legal prosecution. I'm not so dense as to even think it remotely possible. Of course, it is all about the court of public opinion. Even there, you must have some proof in order to make an allegation stick.

Maybe the next time you will be falsely accused of vandalizing someone's car at Tech. Aside from the fact that it would be untrue, how would you prove that it didn't happen.

See the problem? That's why in these stories there comes a time to put up or shut up.

Virginia Centrist

Marco:

You've obviously heard Allene use racial slurs. Why don't you add to the record?

marco

Va. Centrist:

Time to get out of the middle of the road before you get run over.

Isn't that what they say about centrists?

akaison

honestly, I can understand why some of you conservatives would deerly love this to go away. But, really, you can't bring us liberals for bring this to a head in the mailbox.

signed

your friendly, movin' in next door to you, nigger (opps channeling Allen there)- sorry- I mean black guy from So Virginia

Marco,

You're nuts you don't need any proof whatsoever in the court of public opinion. Just look at O.J....99% of all Americans think he is guilty.

marco

To anon. at 3:18:
I don't get the gist of what you are saying. Are you saying that O.J. Simpson that 99% of the public thought he was guilty despite lack of evidence of his guilt...or because an abundance of evidence of his guilt?

We don't have any evidence of anything here except for a witch hunt perpetrated by liberal attack publications.

I'm Not Emeril

If you want someone to investigate this story, you might want to send them to the area of North Carolina where Shelton lives. It was a big story there last January.

http://imnotemeril.blogspot.com/2006/09/did-ken-shelton-channel-recent-north.html

marco

Hmmmmm...

I smell a fabricated story. That stinks to high heaven. What is the mileage radius between Lumber Bridge, NC and where Shelton lives?

I'm Not Emeril

Lumber Bridge is in the southeastern portion of NC, near the coast, Hendersonville (where Dr. Shelton has a clinic) is just west of Charlotte. However, anybody want to bet that the good doctor does not have a beach house?

I'm Not Emeril

Hmm, it seems that the evidence of a fabricated story brought this thread to a grinding halt.

corky

Sad but true to form, you always get the inevitable lonely racist that comes dragging his knuckles in to try to sell the bogus line that Macacwitz doesn't have a bigot boner just like he does.

yah right, the fake Confederate son from Southern California who likes to display his lasso hanging from a tree, spouted off the N-word all the time to his football teammates, and partied with CCC would never dream of doing that. Pull the other one, Archie Bunker.

Gen. JC Christian, patriot

You can complain about Sen. Allen all you want, but he's always been out there in front when it comes to hunters' safety.

http://patriotboy.blogspot.com/2006_09_24_patriotboy_archive.html#115932355434688476

ME IN PWC

When You Add Them Up......

Bush + Allen + Davis

What do you get?

BAD Government

Vote for a New America on 7 November

pacoyogi

More corroboration on the deer head story--Lanahan's college roommate:

http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=41592

H'ville guy

Hendersonville is about 4.5 hours west of Lumber Bridge, NC. The local H'ville Paper is the Times-News and I'm sure it did not carry such a story. The TV coverage would never have made it that far west. I'm pretty sure I would remember stuffing a severed deer head in a mail box, even 30 years later. Who can't remember their college/childhood parnks of that magnatude. Well, other than Allen, but I bet he had so many it is hard to keep up. Sounds like it certainly burned a hole in Shelton's brain.

I'm Not Emeril

Is Hendersonville landlocked? Can you guys not travel outside the Henderson County line?
The story was on the Greensboro area station that I regularily listen to, and I think I remember John Boy and Billy having something on it.

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