ALLEN USED THE N*** WORD!!!!!!

STORY AT SALON

Comments

[J.C. Wilmore]

Allen is toast.

He should drop out now and donate his campaign fund to charity.

[Matt in VA]

Game. Set. Match?

I'll have to read the article.

[Matt in VA]

The headline says no match. But definitely a big lead in the second set.

[anonymous]

Bad link, worse story. What an embarassment to Virginia. At least Ben can fix the link. ...

[Jason]

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/09/24/allen_football/

Over the past week, Salon has interviewed 19 former teammates and college friends of Allen from the University of Virginia. In addition to the three who said Allen used the word "nigger," two others who were contacted said they remember being bothered by Allen's displaying the Confederate flag in college, but said they do not remember him acting in an overtly racist manner. Seven others said they did not know Allen well outside the football team, but do not remember Allen demonstrating any racist feelings. A separate seven teammates and friends said they knew Allen well and did not believe he held racist views. "I don't believe he was insensitive," said Paul Ryczek, who played center in Allen's year before joining the Atlanta Falcons. "He had no prejudices, biases or anything else."

In the interviews, old teammates generally spoke of him highly, as a good friend, a bright and ambitious student, and a colorful character who embraced Southern culture, listened to country music, and attracted the nickname "Neck," as in redneck. "If a black guy dropped a pass, he would say something to him," said Gerard Mullins, who played defensive back in Allen's year. "If it was a white guy, same thing. It really didn't matter where you were from, who you were, or anything."

***

So three people, two unidentified, say he was evil incarnate while seven say he was a good guy and no problem. So we automatically believe the three because, clearly, they are objective while the other seven must be biased.

Yeah, sure.

[J.C. Wilmore]

Holy crap!!! Read the article! One of his fellow players accuses Allen of a hate crime!

Read the thing about the deer head!

[anonymous]

Link appears to be fixed...Not poor Felix though.

14 wig flips !

Yeah, those three must be real credible, especially since they did not even have the courage to reveal their names.

[Poli-Carp]

I can't believe a leftist website could find three people who didn't like Allen in college. I'd hate to think of what some people would've said about me.

[Mason Conservative]

Who to believe? A leftwing website and teamates from near 30 years ago or Sen. Ben Lambert?

Hmmmm

Gee, since the Allen campaign has been such a paragon of gentlemanly behavior, honesty and fairness, I can't believe that a couple of men who don't do anything related to politics are a little reticent to take on a sitting Senator, with millions in the bank and no qualms about sliming anyone who questions him. What a shock! Clearly they couldn't possibly be telling the truth....try again right-wingers.

[Virginia Centrist]

Jason -

Please. Everybody knows about this, it's been an open secret in Virginia politics for years. Where have you been?

[Matt in VA]

UVA's first starting black quarterback was in Allen's graduating class. Now that's an interview I'd love to see on television.

[republitarian]

I used the "N" word this morning...

Is that a big deal?

WILL HE BE PROSECUTED FOR THIS HATE CRIME????

[Keith]

Let's get this straight: THREE out of nineteen former teammates interviewed--including some who have donated to Democrats--say that he said racist things, but SEVEN former teammates said that he definitely did NOT say racist things. So twice as many say that he definitely wasn't racist than say that he is racist. But the memories of the three who can hurt Allen's campaign are given more weight over the others?

This has about all the credibility of a Dan Rather story on Bush's time in the National Guard.

[Doug]

Hmmm... it was back in the 1970s- so does that not count MC and your like? Sort of like writing an article that someone else titles "Women Can't Fight"? No wait, those 4 women from the academy were only 4 out of 2,500.

Dear Hypocrites, he's your man, you sleep with him.

[Matt in VA]

The TNR article is no longer working. Is anyone else having this problem?

MC,
It doesn't matter if the story is true or not. If it influences how someone will vote, then it doesn't matter if George was a member of the NAACP in the 70's. This story fits a narrative, and that narrative is that Senator Allen is a bigot.

Welcome to hardball.

Maybe he likes to sing along with rap songs or quote Dave Chapelle.

[Average Republican]

Come on guys its not like he ever called black people the "N-word" to their face. He only used the term in private with other white people. Whats wrong with that?

It's just a word he made up.

[Not Robert Roberts]

Yeah.... he made it up. it means mohawk... or something.

[Vivian J. Paige]

Average - I certainly hope you are being facetious.

No. It's short for "Nice guy" ... Ni'guy or something. It's Tunisian.

Most damning part of the article is that he nicknamed the guy Wizard; if he in fact did, then all the other people testifying to him not being racist don't matter. He gave a guy a nickname based on the Klan's grand wizard.

Anyone want to open up the can of worms on Forrest again?

Georgeie Allen sure has a fetish about mailboxes. In her book, his sister tells of how Georgie and her other brothers would drive around and bash in neighbors' mailboxes.

Now, we learn that the boy is even more disgusting than we thought. But, that was then...what is now???

I agree. Allen is toast. He should just quit and slink back to wherever....When the right wing turns on you, it's all over.

[Not Harry F. Byrd, Sr.]

I love it. Here come the red bloggers.

Nothing to see here. . . Nothing to see here. . . Nothing to see here. . . Nothing to see here. . . Nothing to see here. . . Nothing to see here. . . Nothing to see here. . . Nothing to see here. . . Nothing to see here. . . Nothing to see here. . . Nothing to see here. . . Nothing to see here. . .

[Dave]

Oh, so if they had served with him in a tiny boat in Vietnam and were financed by a multi-millionaire to make tv ads, then their statements could become a real issue? Oh wait, except Allen's never won a medal for his tolerance... Gee, that's a surprise. Also, the "Women can't fight" narrative can only be equated with this if Webb says something rather sexist to a woman from the Allen campaign holding the camera. Until then, I'm just not sure...
Better watch out Keith, there are gay people getting married behind you...

"During a fire fight Webb once called the enemy 'gooks' .. plus he's an anti-semite".

Where are the A-Teamers?

[Matt in VA]

I'm with anon 8:59. Knowing the names and positions of high-ranking Klan members is not a very common thing.

[Virginia Centrist]

"Who to believe? A leftwing website and teamates from near 30 years ago or Sen. Ben Lambert?

Hmmmm"

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

Oh, c'mon Matt, he just had to call Senator Byrd's office to get the names.

[Melissa]

Ben, d'you think you could possibly make that link a little bit larger? Some people might have trouble seeing it or maybe think that it's not really that significant... Maybe if you added one more flipping toupee, that might help.

(sarcasm, people, sarcasm)

[mailbox]

The part that is most impactful, of course, is the head in the mailbox of local blacks... that is pretty outrageous. Wonder if folks can find past/current owners of targeted houses to confirm? No way is a doctor going to fabricate something as extreme as that...

Let's see what Allen says.

My bet: he won't "dignify" such accusations with an answer (aka, he did it).

What a loser.

[Keith]

The problem with this story is that the Salon writers crafting it got too greedy. Instead of just sticking with the 'N-word' reference, they went for "puts deer heads in black people's mailboxes" angle.

People might believe the "n-word" story, but the deer head story crosses the line into the incredible and unbelievable. Stories like this tend to backfire. Watch out for the backlash against this kind of low-balling.

Deer Sirs, ...

[Conservative Talking Points]

Ok boys, here's your talking points:

1. Robert Byrd uttered a racial slur. This makes Allen's racial slurs ok. Defend the use of racial slurs.

2. Allen may have put a deer's head in a black family's mailbox, but at least he was kind enough to refer to them as "black" instead of "n*****s". This shows a real kindness in Allen's heart.

3. Mention that Benny Lambert endorsed Allen. As of 9:33pm, his endorsement still stands as valid. People love when you use black people to defend the use of racial slurs. It's very endearing.

[mailbox]

Gotta dig up those PV stories... doubtlessly his defects revealed themselves in rich LA suburb.

[Virginia Centrist]

"People might believe the "n-word" story, but the deer head story crosses the line into the incredible and unbelievable. Stories like this tend to backfire. Watch out for the backlash against this kind of low-balling."

Yeah right.

I look forward to a spirited public debate:

Did George Allen put a deer's head in a black family's mailbox?

Yeah, Keith. That back and forth should really boomarang and help Allen!

HAHAHAHA

With respect to those who commented, I believe you mean, "retired Senator Lambert."

[Dannyboy]

You know this is big because of how many Republicans are jumping to defend him right now. When it's a non-issue, people say so. But when it's something serious, the defences, no matter how illogical, come out.

[Virginia Centrist]

Dannyboy -

Almost no republicans are defending it. There's a deafening silence.

And nor should they.

[UVA08]

"So three people, two unidentified, say he was evil incarnate while seven say he was a good guy and no problem. So we automatically believe the three because, clearly, they are objective while the other seven must be biased.

Yeah, sure."

Jason at least have enough courage and call Dr. Ken Shelton a liar.

It's a shame that some people can become so partisan that they can't see what's obvious. There are so many other factors swirling around George Allen that I can't believe that some partisan hacks STILL won't at least question their leader. Hell, one person recalling an elected official saying "nigger" should be enough to raise some eye brows, let alone the facts that he just called an ethnic minority "macaca" a month ago, voted against MLK Jr. Day, hung a noose in his office, had a strange affection for the confederate flag despite not being from the South, opposed the Civil Rights act of the early 90s, defended Trent Lott in the early moments of Thurmond controversey.... What more do you need? For Allen to ride out on a horse with a white sheet on? Then again I am sure your explanation for such an incident would be that Allen just rolled out of bed that day and the sheet got caught over his head.

[lokiloki]

THREE WORDS: Remember Trent Lott?

[Average Republican]

Come on, admit it. We've all stuffed a deer head in a black family's mailbox at some point in our lives.

[t durden]

Three sources. Chris LaCivita hangs up on the reporter rather than issuing a denial.

Other Republicans won't be eager to defend him on this one. Think Trent Lott.

[Mister Mailbox]

I was violated.

[Not Huey Long]

At the very least this takes Allen's campaign off-message for another week simply because they'll be forced to respond to the allegations.

Isn't it a federal offense to tamper with someone's mailbox?

[Dannyboy]

Mailbox:
I feel your pain.

[Kevin]

"Isn't it a federal offense to tamper with someone's mailbox?"

I think heads of dear are on the exempt list.

[phriendlyjaime]

Here's what I gleaned from these comments:

Republitarian is a racist and no one seems to care. That may have been a joke, but it was tasteless and humorless. Absolutely disgusting, and a screen shot should be taken for future reference. Despicable.

Doug at 8:45 makes the best point in the entire thread. Go ahead and TRY to play off the "only 3 out of 19 say he was racist" bc like Doug says, only 4 women out of over 2,000 said Jim Webb hurt women in the navy. Now, I am no mathemetician, but I would say the percentage of people claiming that Allen is indeed a racist is much larger than the miniscule amount of women claiming that Webb aided in the prejudice of women in the armed forces. This should be an update to the thread, actully, it's that good of a point.

Allen needs to stop thinking that by claiming he has a black friend, he just couldn't possibly be a racist. My gay friends aren't suddenly straight bc they comment on a girls looks, or bc they make a comment about breasts.

It should be very easy to find out if there ever was a deer head put into a mailbox, and the media should get to work and stop having unpaid bloggers do their damn jobs.

Bambigram.

[phriendlyjaime]

UVA08 9:50 - you are hilarious, and so right.

I know, it happened 20 yrs ago, but I'll like to see if Allen denies or accepts this story. And if the doctor goes on TV, on more news outlets, on the record. The deer head part of the story is particularly troublesome.

Only sociopaths behave this way.

[phriendlyjaime]

Bush is a sociopath, so I guess make that 98% in agreemnet with Bush. They think an animal's body parts belong chopped up and in strange places.

[Mister Mailbox]

I demand satisfaction!

[lokiloki]

Mister Mailbox i was the one that used the nick 'mailbox' for lack of creativity. didnt realize that it was reserved.

[Not Don Rumsfeld]

Now, golly gee, this is a pickle. I think you'd have a dickens of a time finding that deer head, and if you did, it'd probably be pretty old. I stuffed a squash racket in my mailbox, and I'm still waiting for Emporer Ted to come dislodge it.

[Used2Bneutral]

Yeah Keith, they might get upset and write a letter to Nancy Reagan lying about a supposedly "Negative" political advertisement that casts a negative impression on the memory of her husband.... even though it was actually an honorable wonderful memory of a great president honoring a genuine war hero and an excellent government employee who found he could not continue ethically to work in a situation he found untenable. Webb had the GUTS to resign rather than work in a situation he couldn't condone and believed to be wrong for this country..... WOW, thats it!!! The A-Team and friends don't understand having higher personal ideals than just working at a job that they can't be excellent at because you don't believe in what it had evolved into.

Oh, and I guess I forgot the part about spending Hundreds of thousands of real dollars to smear the honored war hero, because he is so damn credible and honest personally....

Every time I see that attack ad full of lies about Webb and then as Allen comes on to say he authorized it, I check one more number on a list. I then call and convert one more voter with whatever time it takes to understand the passion and anger it generates in me over the distortion of truth and my rights to be governed by an honest, ethical, tolerant, honorable, REAL leader wearing his son's combat boots.

George Allen is not a raciest, he has a color TV.

[phriendlyjaime]

Keep it up, everyone. Keep up the cross posting and the chatter; this is already getting play on google news. This will be next week's big senate race story, will add points to Webb, add $$ to Webb, and leave more Republicans shaking their heads. I notice not a one of you, btw, has ANYTHING to say about Georgeie running for President in 08.

Oh, and Lacivita is doing a heckuva job, eh?

Too bad he didn't go hunting with Cheney.

[Keith]

"It's a shame that some people can become so partisan that they can't see what's obvious."

The problem works the othera l way around as well--it seems that some people are willing to believe any manner of charge that can be thrown against George Allen because they're against him in the Senate race.

In this instance, we have twice as many people on the team saying that Allen showed no signs of racist attitudes than we have of people who accuse him of being racist. Of the three that accuse him, not all of them are willing to go on the record with their names, and some have donated recently to Democrats. Does that not sound the least bit suspicious?

And just how big was this mailbox? A deer head isn't all that small, especially if it's a buck with antlers. Must have been a jumbo size mailbox.

What we have here are rumors which are contradicted by other people who were in just as good a position to know. Someone is lying. Who would be more motivated to lie? It makes at least some sense for the author from a liberal magazine and his anonymous and Democratic sources to lie. It doesn't make nearly as much sense for former teammates who don't have a stake in this fight to lie so they can hide the racism that they supposedly know exists.

[Kevin]

"Allen needs to stop thinking that by claiming he has a black friend, he just couldn't possibly be a racist."

I know George Allen has a picture with a black friend just like Stephen Colbert does.

"And just how big was this mailbox" ??

lol.

[lokiloki]

The rumors were NOT contradicted. To contradict would require one of them to say, I was at event X where the Dr said that Allen made these remarks and I was with Allen the whole night and he never said such. That would be a contradiction.

For them to say that Allen never made such comments while in their presence does not contradict or disprove that he made those comments in the presence of others!

[phriendlyjaime]

Yeah, and the liar is George Allen. I cannot believe you have the balls to come here and defend him when his own campaign manager is hanging up the phone on reporters. What, Keith, did Allen call you personnally to say we are all lying? Are you kidding me? No one needs to lie about Allen's blatant racism, it's pretty damned clear. This may add fuel to the fire, but it isn't a new point.

And your mailbox/deer head defense is just laughable.

[Dannyboy]

Keith:
I'm willing to admit Webb is wrong on issues. I disagree strongly with his "Women Can't Fight" thing, and wish he would come out stronger against it. I've said so repeatedly. Can you admit that, if this hits the MSM, it could be devestating.

[Mister Mailbox]

Keith -

I resent that accusation about my size. It's not your size, it's how you use it...

...And in Allen's case, he uses it for deer head storage.

Doe unto others.

[Chuck]

I can hear the poor black guy explaining to his wife "thats not what I ment when I asked for a little head"!

[Dannyboy]

Chuck:
HAAHAAHAAHAA!

[UVA08]

Keith.... Like I said about the noose, MLK Day, the Civil Rights Act vote, the confederate flag, the name calling, one of these things could be construed as an isolated incident. However, when you start adding one thing on top of another you HAVE to start using common sense and drop the partisan lens somewhere. Perhaps it is because these rumors have long circulated throughout Charlottesville, maybe it's because I don't like Allen either politically (because of the way he votes) nor personally (because of his history and recent name calling), but I am not ready yet to just call these three men liars, especially not the one who was willing to name himself. Like I said, even if ONE person remembers you saying "nigger" you should start wondering especially in the context of Allen's recent history. Just because seven other men never heard Allen say the word doesn't mean he didn't say it. It reminds me of that philosophical question from high school "if a tree falls in a forest with no one around does that mean it doesn't make a sound?" (or something like that). In other words, it's not like in order for this to be true it had to be heard everyone. It seems "lokiloki" has done a better job in making the same point I was trying to make.

"For them to say that Allen never made such comments while in their presence does not contradict or disprove that he made those comments in the presence of others!"

Well said. Right-wingers, your response is.....

[t durden]

"This is your political career, and it's ending one minute at a time."

[Keith]

"I cannot believe you have the balls to come here and defend him when his own campaign manager is hanging up the phone on reporters."

I'm less defending Allen than I am common sense and fairness.

His spokesman is probably hanging up on reporters because responding to this story just legitimizes it, and at this point, it's not worth responding to. Right now, the only people who care about it are left-wing bloggers who are already agaisnt him. If the WaPo picks it up, then he should respond. Is the story devastating? Probably not. The anonymous sources will have to come forward, the Democratic ties of the accusers will be investigated further, and Allen's other teammates come forward saying that he definitely wasn't a racist and will tell stories about what a good guy he was. And this will look like just another smear, and it could backfire.

As for the mailbox/deer head defense--can a deer head fit in your mailbox? It can't fit in mine, nor anyone's box on my street. Did he cut off the antlers to get it in? Or was it an illegally harvested fawn? Should we check into whether or not Allen kills baby deer?

[Dannyboy]

I believe it says in the article Keith:

"He proceeded to take the doe's head and stuff it into a mailbox,"

DOE. It's a female deer. I don't know if YOU'VE ever been hunting, but when I've gone I've always noticed than Does tend to lack the "antlers" you speak of. A doe's head is quite tiny, actually. Could easily fit in a mailbox.

[lokiloki]

Allen just dropped 6 points (and Webb gained 7) on Tradesports... low volume, admittedly, but nice to see the gamblers losing interest in Allen...

[Not Harry F. Byrd, Sr.]

I think Wadams should attack Salon for casting aspersions on him .....

(and then admit to it the next day)

Keith, you won Virginia Centrist's dumbest person in the history of the world award:

http://www.virginiacentrist.com/2006/09/conservatives-defend-george-allens-use.html

[Keith]

Dannyboy, I'm aware of what a doe is--I didn't go back and check the description in the article when I wrote, "A deer head isn't all that small, especially if it's a buck with antlers." I didn't say it was a buck, just that a buck would have been espeically hard.

A doe wouldn't have been much easier--depends on the size, of course. I don't think any doe that I've harvested could fit in my mailbox. But I don't shoot the young ones.

Doe, a deer, a female deer
Keith, got dropped when he was young.
Macaca, a name, Allen calls Siddarth
Fah, a long long way to run

[Chris]

"Who to believe? A leftwing website and teamates from near 30 years ago or Sen. Ben Lambert?"

Give me a break. We will see how long that endorsement stands. Allen paid Lambert a fee to get the endorsement, I don't know how much Ben will demand for him not to rescind it.

[lokiloki]

One wonders if "Keith" will question whether or not rural mailboxes circa 1970 weren't quite a bit bigger than today's urban model?

[Keith]

Nice, an award. I wouldn't say that I was defending Allen. I was casting aspersions on the integrity of the article.

Homer : Doe !

[NotFrenchCheese]

I think the doe story is truly damning of George Allen. Who would think to make that up?

I can't believe this guy fooled voters for as long as he did.

And yes - I am emailing a friend who played football with GA at UVA. I love to know his take on this.

[Used2Bneutral]

no its Doe as in $$$$ lost

[phriendlyjaime]

BTW, Allen was ugly in college.

[Chris]

Allen is even uglier as a public servant.

[Dannyboy]

The average doe weighs, what, anywhere between 100 and 120 pounds? The biggest Doe on record, I think, is a little over 170 lbs. I doubt Allen got something that big. I'm betting it was somewhere in between 110-140 lbs. That head would wouldn't be that hard ot put in a mailbox. I mean, we're talking smaller than your forearm.

[Chris]

Keith Says "Is the story devastating? Probably not."

I hope the Republicans that are defending Allen on this site truly believe this is a false story (though the evidence of his racism is becoming pretty overwhelming). After all, that is the only way someone that is not a racist themselves could continue to support George Allen.

Unfortunately, it does not appear that Keith feels that way. If the GOP does not believe that this story, if true, is devastating they are hopeless.

If the Republican Party does not distance itself from Allen if this story is determined to be true, they are officially declaring themselves a racist Party.

[Alexander]

I'm a conservative. I live in Virginia. I've voted for maybe three or four Democrats in my life, and I've never voted Democrat for president or for national office. But I'm going to buck that trend in November. I'm voting for Jim Webb.

Webb is a bit too liberal for my tastes, but he's a tough guy, respectable, honorable, and more importantly, NOT a racist. George Allen is a racist. That's been made clear to me throughout this campaign season. First the Confederate flag. Then the noose. Then macaca. Then the Jewish thing. And now this. It's clear Allen has major problems with people who aren't white Anglo-Saxon Protestants. Well, if that's the case, then I have a problem with Allen.

I cringe at the thought of the Democrats controlling the Senate, but that's just a chance I'll have to take, because I refuse to vote for Allen. And I just know if Allen wins, the rural types in the Republican Party are going to try to shove him down our throat for president. No way. We're not going back to that country we once were, where people were divided on racial lines. Nope, I'm voting for Webb this fall.

[lokiloki]

It is this type of incident which also further erodes the GOP's standing, re: blacks, hispanics, and any other non-White non-Christian person.

At the next convention, the GOP will have to tell the casting agents to DOUBLE the number of minorities!

[Dannyboy]

Alexander:
Trust me, Webb's not that liberal. I'm a proud Blue Dog Democrat. Socially Moderate-Conservative. I understand where you're coming from. I'm completely comfortable with Jim Webbm and I think if you really get a chance to see the guys positions, you will too. I think basically everybody who's not at the far extreme of either side will be comfortable with Jim Webb.

[Chris]

Unfortunately, Doubling the cast of minorities at a Republican Convention probably still would not get it to one percent.

[Alexander]

"If the Republican Party does not distance itself from Allen if this story is determined to be true, they are officially declaring themselves a racist Party."

Chris, it's liberals like you that have kept me voting Republican all these years. Please. Allen's doing just fine destroying his own campaign. Don't overreach.

My party is not racist. But George Allen is racist. I hope he loses this fall and Michael Steele, a black Republican running for Senate in Maryland, wins.

Uh, lokiloki, most white Christians will be bothered by it .