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plunge

Oh good heavens. Now this is just descending to parody. No doubt the records of Allen's pre-adult life are sealed, as they should be. But they certainly make it a lot harder to discount Shelton and the rest.

Not Harry F. Byrd, Sr.

Maybe he was like Roy Hobbs. Oh, wait, that was Wonderboy and then the Savoy Special.....

I guess he liked knocking teeth down throats early on.

plunge

Bah. Anonymous stories are worthless: just noise unless they offer some sort of confirmation. This one offers nothing more than a hearsay of hearsay. With all the directly sourced non-anonymous sources out there, such fluff ain't needed.

lokiloki

What a loser this Allen.

Definently Not Jay Katzen

This blog and this campaign is rapidly spiraling into an abyss that will be impossible to come out of. Even though I'm a Republican, I used to read NLS for it's insightful breakdown of numbers and the decent job it did covering Virginia Political news, how ever, I'm off of it now. Did you know, there's a special session of the GA about to start? I suppose the lack of any blind posts on Salon.com (always the best source for a lead story) accusing members of the GA of racism or National Socialist leanings renders the future of transportation in Virginia a meaningless story. Get over yourselves people! You are not hard journalists. You are rumor-pushing hate mongerers. Who's better, the guy who says the n-word or the guy who rus around repeating it so everyone knows the first guy said it. Guess what?? You're still using it. You're like the damn Knight who said Ni! Somebody wake me when NLS has NEWS to report. Until then, keep all the women-hating, jew-baiting, deer head in a mail box crap to yourselves. You're polluting my country, and my government.

Doug

Man, my head hurts from martinis. Where's dannyboy? I'll tell you, the one's who should really be in trouble is poor billy's in blacksburg.

And meanwhile, something very strange happened to my Senate campaign. I hear someone's Jewish, like half my family.

Matt

I agree doug...this race has just gone crazy off the deep end fast...I'm waiting for the Allen campaign to start trying to accuse Webb of anything...

Like sleeping with vietnamese prosititutes or something about killing a man....cuz Allen's name is getting trashed terribly

Bubby

You know what already spiraled into the abyss? The do-nothing Republicans in the House of Delegates - they frittered away their session on stupid shit like an embarrassing hate amendment to the Constitution, and the State Song. The Speaker, and his pals are still mumbling incoherent nonsense about toll roads - heckuva job there fellas. Man, we have work to do - broad swaths of our government are in the hands of incompetent preening boobs!

Dannyboy is just a boy, mot a man. You can't keep a good man down. Allen is a good man.

Not Pam Anderson

Rednecks are SUCH a turn-off!

Sam

Because sources named "A Virginia Republican" and "the zudes" are definitely reliable sources.

I mean, come on, Ben. Now you're just grasping at straws. ANYONE could have sent you that email and ANYONE could have posted that on Salon.com. Put something up with real content in it and I'll be interested.

i agree. i love jim webb and dems, but those postings are not credible.

Insider

Anyone else think it odd that someone called "Virginia Republican" would say Virginians need to know about "their" senator.

republitarian

I'm just glad the REAL Pam thinks they're a turn on...

Doug

Bubby and Not Pam, I need a big hug. The sunlight this morning is a bit much. I feel like a severed deer head left in a mailbox.

What the hell is Blacksburg sushi made of anyway? And the martinis?

Doug

I think this campaign has turned into a giant game of frogger with Allen as the main character.

And you nuts can say anything, but none of this has to do with Webb and his campaign.

David

You guys are so desperate, your guy cannot run on the issues so you have to go negative....it won't work.

DAvid

Mutltiple choice Question:

How long did Webb serve as sec. of the Navy?

1) 8 years

2) 6 Years

3) 3 years

4) about 10 mos, resigning after he could not get his way. Of course this never comes out in his campaign. One would think the answer would be A.

Not Pam Anderson

Republitarian dear, there is a difference between 'putting up with' and being turned on by. Just saying.

akaison

ahhh- look at the lil republicans whining. isn't is so cute. what's that quote from the bible- live by the sword, die by it? if you don't think of allen as a racist (which by the way means you have no moral core other than winning), then just think of this as karma (or as I liked to call it the anti Newt, anti Rove's revenge part deux). Peace.

Doug

David- HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I'm sorry, do you need a hug? Not Pam is willing to put up with it, I bet, but it'll take a real people lovin' liberal like me to turn her on.

"words, words, words"

Bubby

Doug that wasn't sushi, it was pressed chicken. Now roll into the kitchen, mix up a bicarbonate (1 tsp. baking soda, 12 oz. water), drink it down and point your pie hole out the door - that belch is toxic!

And you thought drinking was fun. Its not, its a job and it is good for the economy. The tinkle-down theory...

Well if your candidate can’t motivate the African American vote, then you have to make up stuff up about the other guy to do it for him. So, what does it pay to continuously write lies?

BTW, don’t you find it odd that all this is coming up now, even though Allen’s run statewide twice and been in public life for over a decade? Where were all these former friends when he ran for governor or senator the first time? Sure, there was the flag stuff, but nothing like the crap being peddled now. Would not that have been the time to come out? Sounds like a bunch of D activist making stuff up to motivate a block of voters who have, to date, expressed little interest in the democratic nominee.

I can't believe that you, Not Larry Sabato, have not highlighted that LARRY SABATO (his former classmate) has confirmed that Allen lied and has indeed used the N-word.

THAT is the final nail in his campaign coffin.

Doug

Anon 8:29- not really.

UVA08

Apparently Waldo knows a few people who have heard him saw it as well.... Like I said, if you were from Charlottesville you wouldn't have a hard time with this at all. My grandmother and aunt live in Earlysville just down and up the street from he used to live. Most people are wondering why it took so long for the rest of Virginia to find out.

After allowing all of this to sit in the emotion of disbelief is being replaced with anger. For the life of me I just don't understand how such a man was elected to represent this great state. I used to think Virginia had changed. That we looked at our past with and regret. "After all," I told myself, "we elected the first and only Black governor since Reconstruction." Now my feelings are not so optimistic. When I was child I was incredibly innocent when it came to race, thanks to the wonderful job my parents did. Once I got to the upper levels of middle school, however, they began to teach me about the real world.

Before I graduated from high school my parents told me some things are going to happen out there that will shock you, disturb you, and make you think twice about just how far we have come since the Civil Rights Movement. I said "yeah right" after all I was 17 and knew everything about the world. Of course there were a few idiots in teh back woods but among the general population? No. I was only in college in for a few weeks before the first racial incident occurred here at UVA. It was followed by a few others and then a long intense string of them my second year in the Fall of 2005.

In the Spring of 2005 I took a course called Racial Politics, which traced the development of politics as we know them today. I was shocked, intrigued, and mad all at the same time. How could this stuff still go on this day and age? From "Welfare Queens driving Cadillacs" to the Willie Horton ad to Hurricane Katrina to Macaca to revelations about Allen's past. We have come incredibly far but we have such a long way to go.

Now to my anger. It astounds me that so many Republicans (not as many as usual though) have come on this board, defended George Allen, or attacked those who had the courage to step forward. I am only 20 years old and even I have heard enough rumors to not be surprised by this, surely you aren't. Even if you are new to Virginia you don't have to be a genius to connect the dots. George Allen's history is peppered with racially insensitive comments and actions, these latest revelations should come as a shock to no one. I believe people change and deserve a second chance, but Allen has done little to show he feels differently. He hasn't acknowledged his past, he hasn't apologized, and to make matters worse he just called an ethnic minority "macaca" a month ago and reacted strangely when someone asked of his Jewish heritage. Allen has not changed. He is a bigot, a liar, and a disgrace to Virginia. That has nothing to do with partisanship and everything to do with principle.

We have a chance to make things right. Show the country that this is not tolerated in Virginia. We are the not state of massive resistance anymore and we should prove that on November 7, 2006.

I am done ranting now. ;-)

Batter

Where's Ham Sandwich? I long for the good old days of last week when we were only talking about Roshashana.

Not Harry F. Byrd, Sr.

Where were all these former friends when he ran for governor or senator the first time?

*****

You nailed it Anon 8:29. It's just a vast left wing conspiracy of doctors, Ph.D.'s, Republican politicos, respected political commentators, and [anyone else come out today].

How many people you want to attack? Pretty soon it's going to be about 15 people against George Allen and 3 football player buddies.

I suspect that all of these people were too scared and intimidated by Allen, his money, his personality, his violent talk, and his power to speak out.

Now that some light has been cast upon Senator Allen's crazy spouse in the attic (by himself, Macaca, the Chamber Debate, etc.) and all of these people see that they are not alone in what they saw, the bully/racist has been being exposed for what he is, and people don't have to be scared of being singled out for speaking out, and ALL of skeletons coming dancing out of the closet.

He's getting exactly what he deserves.

Virginia Centrist

REPUBLICANS:

Stop embarrassing yourselves. There are about 1000 of these stories. You'll only look like asses in the end...

Not Don Rumsfeld

Did anyone actually read David's post from 8:14. The answer should be A. Out of a numbered list.

HOOO HAAA. We're not all that stupid.

Not Don Rumsfeld

Not HFB- there were also no blogs and tubes and internets weren't so used then. Where's Emporer Ted? He could extemporise on the reason all this is coming out not.

Not Don Rumsfeld

or now

I'm not having a dickens of a time finding people who know allen is a big fat racist.

marco

NLS,

Even you can see that the double hearsay that you have placed in quotes above is thoroughly unreliable.

Here's what it amounts to:
1. The author won't reveal his name;
2. He/she is quoting another person;
3. who is quoting another person.

Hell, that might even be triple hearsay. It's a he said, she said, she said.

Kinda without substance, don't you think? That's why reporters generally require at least one person to come forward on the record.

Bubby

UVA08: It's about the voter, or the lack of...Larry Sabato actually had an interesting view of this a year or so ago. He was fired up about the poor voter turn-out, and the lack of competitive races. George Allen thinks he has been crowned Senator. The gist of it was that average Virginians still defer to the 'cavalier' class of priveleged citizens and don't see themselves as engaged in the government of Virginia. We simply must reach into the poorer segments of Virginia and convince them that voting matters and is how we will change Virginia for the better. I would say that GOTV is the single most important thing we can do. That and give what we can to the campaign fund.

I encourage you to keep pushing. Virginia needs all her people. This can be the place where the south finally ascends as a healed and complete Commonwealth.

Allen deserves this for saying "I've never used that word." He's daring people to come out of the woodwork and prove him wrong; sure enough, they're coming and they probably won't stop for a long time.

Doug

Marco- you were bad enough defending not giving our troops body armor and helmet liners, I don't think this is one you need to comment on. This is a day to stay in bed for you and chuck and i.amaracisttoo and bite your pillows.

Remember, my gay relatives and friends are coming to ruin your marriage and that's what's really important come nov. 7.

David

I wish list:

..that Charlottesville and NoVA would secede from VA and create its own state.

Edward

This is horrible for Virginia. We are facing the prospect of a massive boycott of our travel industry due to Sen Allens racist remarks.

The business community is not happy with what is going on today.

Doug

Screw you David- that comment makes you my weenie of the week.

marco

Doug:
There is a point beyond which muckrakers lose their credibility.

Anonymous sources on Salon.com, deer heads, and registered Democrats making allegations in the NEW YORK TIMES are moments in this campaign when the line was long since crossed.

Just remember, when you open the door to this kind of campaign, it will be hard to bring attention back to your issues. If Webb's picket fence isn't clean, the voters are going to know about it.

G F Allen

Save the Turtles!

Not Harry F. Byrd, Sr.

Marco:

Crossed the line because a "registered Democrat" was used as a source?

Will you be proposing legislation this year that registered/active Democrats are incompetent to testify in court or prohibited from speaking in public regarding anything about a Republican?

Doug

Marco- don't you have some deer heads to cut off?

I'll type this slowly, so you get it again: I am not part of the Webb campaign. I am a Virginian. I am from the rural SW in VA. Allen isn't fit to shine my hiking boots (good lord that does not fit today).

Really, your pillow is lonely if you are not biting it Marco. Oh, and my family has some interacial marriages in it, and even some jews, shouldn't you be writing an ammendment to address all that before your marriage breaks up?

Soup's on!

Batter

paaaaaaahjoraaaaative

not gretchen bulova

Does Allen wake up in the morning with coffee and a racial slur? It sure seems that way.

What excuse will that rag The A-Team come up with the defend Allen this time?

marco

Not Harry Byrd:
What I am pointing out is that the source to which you and the NEW YORK TIMES referis a registered Democrat. Hence, he is biased and his motivation to lie is clear.

Marco, quit smoking referis and try the turtle soup.

UVA08

Marco.... what party did those Women belong to? I am really curious.

marco

Doug:
I'm glad to hear that you have no direct affiliaton with the Webb campaign because I was starting to think that you were one of those paid bloggers of the Webb campaign so often referenced in recent Virginia based articles.

If I am not mistaken, since Lowell was taken to task over his many bombastic and over-the-top articles on RK, this blog has become the new place to through about slander.

Sam

Sen Allen is a registered Republican by your logic is he biased and motivated to lie also?

Clearly many more alligations are coming.

marco

UVA 08:

The reason the female naval officers were reliable is because at least one of them is a registered Democrat. Their statements were offered against Webb -- not for him.

If you can't see the distinction, I don't have time to explain it to you.

marco

Sam,
If you have more allegations, are they going to come in the form of Salon.com articles or the NEW YORK TIMES?

I'm sure the Webb campaign can find a liberal publication willing to do their bidding.

Turtle

I'm a registered Democrat and no one loves me.

marco

Turtle:
You must not live in Virginia as Virginia does not register by party.

doug

Marco- is Larry Sabato a registered democrat?

I hear democrats don't wash their hands after potty btw.

doug

Marco- are you actually trying to be an idiot? You can register as a democrat in va. I'm actually not registered, so I must be a reliable source.

How bout that Larry Sabato? Liberal media? Birkenstock wearing baby killer?

UVA08

Marco.... Ken Shelton donated and voted for Republican candidates before. What proof do you have that any of these sources are partisans? Especailly Larry Sabato whose career depends on being viewed as an objective independent political analyst. Why would he risk it all to LIE about George Allen???

If you cannot connect the dots of Allen's past then I don't have time for you. Quite pathetic that you are defending this man.

UVA08 - The most vocal of those women is a very prominent DEMOCRATIC activist in California. She and Allen disagree on about 100% of the issues. Her speaking out wasn't a partisan thing, it was because she felt the truth needed to be known. She even called Webb the day before the press conference and offered to pull out if he apologized to her. He said no.

marco

Doug:

Ask Larry yourself? The answer is that before he became "Dr. Dial a Quote" -- Sabato was active in partisan politics -- including a stint as the spokesperson for Henry Howell -- a three time Democrat candidate for governor.

http://www.virginia.edu/insideuva/textonlyarchive/97-10-10/2.txt

not marco

I have a new recipe for turtle soup and bambi. Anyone seen Ham Sandwich? I miss her.

marco

Doug:
Please reference this string on this site:

http://notlarrysabato.typepad.com/doh/2006/02/party_registrat.html

What are you smoking this morning?

UVA08

"UVA08 - The most vocal of those women is a very prominent DEMOCRATIC activist in California. She and Allen disagree on about 100% of the issues. Her speaking out wasn't a partisan thing, it was because she felt the truth needed to be known. She even called Webb the day before the press conference and offered to pull out if he apologized to her. He said no."

You can't post something like that without proof. Where is the link? Even without that, prove that these people speaking out are liars. Attacking some one's honesty is a huge attack on character. Provide proof that they are lying. In light of Allen's past how can you STILL be so oblivious??? Honest question and I would like an answer, what would it take to prove to you that Allen is a bigot? Is there anything? Scott Peterson was convicted of murder on less evidence than this.

Gilbert

Does Sen Allen have a "little blue dress" to worry about. I think we will be seeing the video real soon.

Doug

Your mom.

Ha- I kid.

marco

"Scott Peterson was convicted of murder on less evidence than this."

Get real.

UVA08

Marco.... I am developing a list of actions or statements made by Allen that are questionable. If you can reasonably explain it away in the context of one another then I would say that all of this controversy surrounding Allen lacks substance. Give me about an hour or so.

UVA08

will say*

not gretchen bulova

Marco, I think you need to hit the showers, denying his racist tendencies is just stupid.

A hint: denying will keep the story alive, apologizing, acknowledging the past and saying you've changed is Allen's best hope.

Ducks, turtles, deer and monkeys too.

The Allen campaign's turned into a zoo.

He can't do that NGB - unless he considers the macaca incident the distant past. He's a changed man since last month? Yeah right.

marco

NGB:
I think you need to best look at all of this in the context that Ben Lambert and a host of black ministers have endorsed George Allen. He has continued to receive more support in the African American community than any other Republican candidate statewide.

I would point to this more than anything else.

When these attacks continue to come from the left and left leaning publications, there is no question that there is a concerted and orchestrated effort to destroy George Allen.

The problem is that this same level of attack has been tried before on other Republican candidates -- George Bush in 2000 and '04 as just one example. It's all part of the Democratic dirty trick playbook.

The only problem with all of this is that Jim Webb has a history on the confederate flag. Have we forgotten that little fact?

Jim Webb is the candidate with tepid support, at best, in the African American community? Have we forgotten that tidbit too?

not gretchen bulova

I think Clinton is the precendent for this type of scandal. Apologize, American's are forgiving.

You might be right anon, it's too late, he screwed himself with Macaca. He should have started apologizing then, instead he runs and hides.

Doug

Marco- pillows. They aren't going to bite themselves.

G F Allen

Anybody seen my bat? I left here somewhere.

not gretchen bulova

Marco - You will learn this but I will repeat it for you now. ENDORSEMENTS ARE GENERALLY WORTHLESS. In fact, I would say Lambert's endorsement says less about Allen then it does about Lambert.

I don't have a problem like some do with him endorsing a Republican, I think he was an idiot for endorsing this Republican. A Republican who clearly thinks less of African-Americans.

marco

NGB:

I think you need to broaden how you look at this. Besides, Clinton never really apologized. In fact, he did the opposite and that fueled the fire for drafting the Articles of Impeachment.

The best analogy is the 2000 campaign in which everything but the kitchen sink was thrown at George Bush. From cocaine to DUI, Salon.com and others were actively trying their level best to assasinate his character.

UVA08

I am thinking of too many things and need to get background info on all of it..... May take longer than an hour but I will have a list, may take longer than an hour though. Give me a while...

not gretchen bulova

Marco, that is my point. Clinton never apologized, that is why he had so much trouble. If he had apologized and copped to his problem initially he wouldn't have been nearly as deep into shit as he was.

In 2000, most of Bush's garbage came very late in the game and people viewed it as a last minute plow, this started much earlier, over numerous news cycles, forcing people to believe it

marco

NGB,
You can call Ben Lambert an idiot if you so choose.

However, you overlook the fact that George Allen actively campaigned in the African American community in 1993. In many respects, he sought to actively campaign for the African American vote in much the same manner that Jack Kemp advocated in the early 1990s.

I'll reference you to the whole discussion regarding free enterpise zones and urban renewal. It is specifically because of these efforts that George Allen received a higher percentage of the African American vote than any other statewide Republican candidate for governor. Something around 20% or more..at a time when most Republicans were getting in single digits.

marco

NGB:

You are right on Clinton re: no apology. However, you are wrong re: Bush and the stuff coming in late. All of the garbage there came throughout -- from early on until the eve of the election.

Go back and look at the history on this. Starting in 1998 or earlier, there was a strong campaign to label Bush as a drug addict, that he tried cocaine, that he fought with his father, that he was AWOL, etc., etc.

The storyline was slightly different than the George Allen stuff but the modus operandi was the same. Same publications, anonymous sources, etc., etc.

It's the same playbook.

not gretchen bulova

Cocaine I believe you are right, but the DUI came out the weekend before the election. Luckily for Bush, the cocaine didn't catch on and the DUI was brushed off by Americans, to their detriment of course.

marco

NGB:
I'm glad that you acknowledge that their was character assasination there in that election.

Some of the facts and circumstances are different but the patterns are largely the same.

But, you haven't acknowledged what I said about free enterprise zones and the whole concept of urban renewal.

Even Doug Wilder has conceded that Richmond propered during the Allen Administration.

My whole point is that George Allen had a very inclusive cabinet and advanced policies aimed towards renewing the African American community.

Does Jim Webb even know what a free enterprise zone is?

Delta mike

I find it laughable that the right is accusing the left of character assassination. Character assassination is the go-to-play of the Rove and Wadhams playbook. I'm glad we are finally fighting fire with fire. Payback is a bitch ain't it?

This race is off the deep end...

we have republicans lecturing democrats on dirty politics

we have democrats defending sexist statements by a democrat turned republican turned democrat

we have a candidate with jewish ancestry who gets pissed when anyone talks about it

we have republicans pretending to be the party of minorities and women

we have deers, turtles, and monkeys

we have bloggers accusing other bloggers of antisemitism even though the accused are jewish

we have ham sandwiches and tasty pork loin

Poli-Carp

A fellow named Ty Cobb was chair of the College Republicans. Coincidence? I think not!

NOVA

"Anyone else think it odd that someone called "Virginia Republican" would say Virginians need to know about "their" senator."

Not necessarily. There are tons of young people moving into Northern Virginia because they're migrating to DC for the jobs and the quality-of-life is a notch higher out here. If "Virginia Republican" is one of these recent transplants, he may not think of himself as a real Virginian. I meet a lot of people out here who still say, "I'm from New York" or whatever instead of calling Virginia home.

Poli-Carp

I reckon if you come from New York City, NoVa's quality of life may be top-notch to you.

DeltaMike -- they can dish it but they sure can't take it.

I emailed that Larry Sabato video to three Republicans friends last evening. All three are appalled. They are all done with George Allen and are worried that this will bring down their other Republican candidates.

marco

I notice that Doug and others here have mailed to mention that Katherine Waddell, Allen's first wife, issued a letter strongly refuting that grad student's assertions.

Wasn't Doug the one who promised that Waddell would hold a press conference attacking Allen for "wife beating"?

Was that you Doug? Or, was that one of your fellow travelers?

Yes, it was Doug.

This is the woman Allen supposedly beat regularly. Doug, you're looking quite the fool right about now.

Doug

Doug in MV? Wasn't me, sport, but thanks for trying.

How's your pillow holding up?

allbetsareoff

Doug Wilder said that Richmond prospered when Allen was governor? Got a reference for that? Most Richmonders would say the city bottomed out in the early and mid-'90s.

Sabato's performance on "Hardball" -- I know Allen said it, but I won't tell you how I know -- says to me that he has another shoe to drop, in a forthcoming op-ed, website piece or TV appearance. I don't think he will peddle hearsay because of the damage that would do to him professionally.

Virginia Centrist

Marco:

Why are you lying for Allen? Apparently you know this man, and I assume you've been in the room for about 4000 of his N-bombs.

UVA08 - "You can't post something like that without proof."

It's very funny that you should say that, given that you're so eager to believe allegations about Allen that are made with ZERO proof. Do you only require proof for things that you don't want to believe?

Spank That Donkey

Ben:
You are part and parcel to the smear campaign putting up that "I vote Republican" BS...

I could easily, having been a US Marine, recall a conversation I had with a senior Non Commissioned officer I served with, who told me, he served with Webb is Nam...

and this unnamed Marine told me Webb did thus and thus, and said thus and thus.....

Save your reputation, while you still can, say no to the RK smear tactics!

Pizzler

I read with some suspicion the story by thezudes of George Allen's bat and his un-offical club "the Jesse James Revival". Having gone to high school and law school with George, I've never heard those things about him. George was suspended for spray painting racial and other graffiti on the walls of Palos Verdes High School, but it was not in the fall of 1967 before a football game as thezudes claims. It was before a basketball game in late February, 1970 during George's senior year. George's known racial problems and curious affinity for the Confederacy are shocking enough by themselves. Don't muddy the waters!

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