The best debate I have ever seen

That was a spectacular event. The debate can almost totally be summed up with one question:

Is George Allen a racist?

Out of 9 questions from the panelists, Allen took 5 turns first.  Of those 5, they included:

What to do about D.C. voting rights?  Allen answered with basically "give them to Maryland".  A majority black city without Congressional representation on the Virginia border- and George Allen's answer is give them to Maryland?  I think it's safe to say everyone in the audience was thinking the same thing when he answered that.

Did you learn the French-Tunisian slur "macaca" from your French-Tunisian mother?  Allen was getting mad at this point and said he did not learn any racial slurs from his mother.  (This is also the point where Allen was asked another question about his mother that I will cover in the next post)

Jeff Schapiro asked about Allen using rhetoric from the segregationist south (i.e. racist) during a confrontation he had with the federal government. Allen responded by talking about that moter-voter issue and did not address the origins of his rhetoric.

Macaca came up again during the questions to Webb about his writings on military issues.  Webb said something along the lines of "I guess this is my payback for the macaca story" which was a big applause line.

Finally, macaca came up one more time when Allen said "Written words are words you think about".  He was trying to slam Webb for his writings on women in the military but it just made everyone in the audience think he was comparing it to the macaca incident.

It's easy to say Jim Webb won this debate.  George Allen did an able job of answering questions on issues, and debating, but he is in a true no-win situation as long as this issue continues to overshadow everything else. 

I don't think Allen can win in 50 days unless he finds some way for people to discuss another issue without any racial overtones between now and November 7th.  Allen has got to be one of the only Republicans in America who want to talk about issues right now. 

Comments

Any video links that acutally work? Anybody got the C-SPAN URL you can plug into standalone real player?

WaPo just has a snippet :
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2006/09/18/VI2006091800631.html

[Dannyboy]

It's on right now, I believe.

[Joel Rutstein]

The video snippet of the promised forthcoming post about Allen's ancestor can be found at http://www.wonkette.com. Just scroll down (and click the "next" button if necessary) until you see Allen. I've also heard that c-span.org has (or will have) the whole debate, but I haven't checked for myself.

I think Allen is just fine. Everyone claims John Kerry dominated the debates in 04 and look what happened in the general. Allens TV has been pretty positive for the most part and his one negative ad was very hard hitting claiming Webb dishonored a widows wishes.

Bottom Line: Until Webb can constitently raise BIG money, this race will not be any closer than it is today. Most people DO NOT read blogs and follow this story closely. The Maccaca incident hurt Allen but the second debate today was essentially useless because it was not televised. Fundraising is everything and Webb right now cannot affort consistent TV time in important markets.

[Dannyboy]

That question was out of line. Absolutely out of line. But watch GOP Bloggers and Allen Staffers try to somehow blame that on Democrats.

Screw the grandaddy's religion thing. I don't care. What channel is on? News8? CSPAN1? CSPAN2?
Youtube? ifilm? where is the whole debate?

Webb's campain is pathetic. One "issue" is all you got. I'm not sure he'd be able to vate when he gets to the polls, he'll be looking for the name Macca next to his.

Now WHY oh WHY would DC ever be given to Maryland?

Surely it must be for racist reasons. After all DC is filled with black people.

Or MAYBE, just MAYBE it is because all of the land that currently comprises DC was ONCE MARYLAND.

I'm not sure if NLS is pathetic or an idiot. At the very least a high school history course is in order.

Dannyboy,

To what question are you referring?

[Not Larry Sabato]

Anon 823- I think you misunderstood. I'm not saying I disagree with Allen's position on giving D.C. to Maryland. I'm just saying EVERYTHING he says now has racial overtones, and that is what is haunting the campaign.

NLS,

It could be haunting the campaign but how much of this is getting out publically?? I sometimes feel things get overmagnified in the blogosphere. I think Allen has seen some positive reading in the news with his ethnic rally and endorsement by Sen. Lambert.

Until Webb can hit constistenly with paid media it could go for naught because free media will only go so far.

[Not Huey Long]

Anon 8:31...you might want to check out the front page of today's New York Times or perhaps the headline story of the Wash Post?!? Webb's performance on MTP yesterday will result in a huge infusion of cash into the campaign coffers. GFA is squarely in the bullseye.

We shall see about money coming in to the Webb campaign. He will need literally millions to catch up. When I start see paid media consistently I will believe Webb's financial hype. I just don't think he has a good fundraising operation.

[Virginia Centrist]

Ha ha ha, this is a great post.

And the best part is that I proposed a series of intellectual debates about whether George Allen was racist a while back. I'm glad we're taking a cold, sober look at this important issue of our time.

[Jason]

I'm sorry, but DC going to MD makes sense geographically more than anything else. To call it on race is just crazy.

Anyone who hopes that Webb won't have sufficient financial resources to compete with Mr. Allen is in for a sobering suprise November 8th.

[Not Huey Long]

The sobering surprise is how quickly Allen's lead has evaporated.

DC = taxation without representation. Perhaps GFA needs a primer on DC voting rights from Tom Davis.

[BudManCubFan]

I realize this is beating a dead horse; but if "macaca" really is such a bad word, why does everyone keep saying it? I wonder how long my posts would stick around if I used the n-word (which everyone on the left says the M-word is)

Sounds to me as if this is the only thing Webb has going for him. He is starting to slip in the polls so let's partner up with the willing media and keep this going as long as possible.

NLS,

I was there, and I would disagree. I think the debate was probably more 50-50, with a lean to Webb in the anti-war movement and anti-Republican issues, and a slight edge to Allen in the pro-Virginia business issues, anti-terrorist rhetoric, and “how dare you degrade my family heritage” fiasco.

Most elected officials and business leaders commented that this debate was nothing like last year’s Kaine-Kilgore debate, moderated by Tim Russert. Kaine trampled Kilgore with the help of Russert. I was also there, and all of us were stunned at the lopsided Kaine victory at that debate. Kilgore stormed off the stage afterwards, yet still got the FCCC endorsement! Some of us were still shaking our head about that endorsement today, almost a year later.

The two points that will likely be characterized by today’s debate are the Iran-Syria issue and the horrible questioning by Peggy Fox from Channel 9. The AP story that is now running national is highlighting both of those issues. Sadly, reporters will be less likely to ask Allen about the macaca thing (I guess it is ok to write out macaca since Webb can joke about it and say it to an audience of several hundred attendees) because of Peggy Fox’s horrible (can I say horrible just one more time?) participation.

AP story:

http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=25&pid=0&sid=916776&page=1

Slip in the polls BMCF? Do you pursue ignorance or does it come naturally to you?

[James Young]

DC = Consumption without Production. And perhaps a lot of people need a primer on the state from which D.C. was ceded to the Federal government. The ONLY reason that retrocession is not an acceptable alternative is because it would deny the Democrat Party two reliably Democrat Senators.

[Not John S Mosby]

Regarding the anon post concerning Kerry and the debates, G. Felix better hope these debates don't do for Webb what the Kerry-Bush ones did for Kerry. Kerry was floundering, double-digit points behind in the polls, then came out swinging in the first debate, crushed Bush and instantly revitalized his campaign. He didn't win but came damn close to unseating an incumbant President and the debates were the key factor in getting him back in the race.

G. Felix shot himself in the foot and his double-digit lead has already shrunk to 3-6 points. If Webb continues to win the debates/joint appearances and the public continues to associate G. Felix with racism as well as with Bush, G. Felix is in for a world of hurt.

Presidential campaigns are about the year. Senate and House campaigns are all about what happens in Sept and October. Webb is much, much closer than most of us Democrats figured he would be at this point, and that's a big to do.

[phriendlyjaime]

This has got to be one of the best posts I have seen, Ben. Even though you think I dress poorly, I still love you.

To pretty much all anons: you're making it worse by whining.

Until DC elects a "statehood" slate to the electoral college, it'll be hard to take them seriously.

[Not Huey Long]

James...so are you saying the majority of DC residents aren't productive, hard-working citizens? Because if so, then that's a racially charged statement. Of course, that's not a surprise coming from your ilk.

[GOPHokie]

Not JSM, when was Kerry "floundering" in the polls?
I don't think I ever remember Bush leading by more than MOE.

"Perhaps GFA needs a primer on DC voting rights from Tom Davis."

Oh, perhaps, NHL and others need a primer on the US Constitution.

[JPTERP]

"DC = Consumption without Production."

We're talking about the federal government right?

The city government under Williams has actually done alright. I remember looking at this issue about 10 years ago--and even during the Barry years--I didn't get the sense that DC was any more inefficient than a whole lot of other cities its size. The issue has a lot to do with the fact that most of the peoople who work in the city, use city services, but only pay their share of the city taxes indirectly through federal taxes--or through small scale measures like city sales taxes and parking tickets.

Most cities DC's size can rely on state support; DC does have support from the federal government--but a large chunk of those resources are simply dedicated to the 2 or 3 square miles around federal government buildings.

Something should be done about this.

I don't know if the best approach is to waive federal taxes inside DC (an idea that's been proposed in the past), or some other option.

I suspect if DC did decide to waive federal income tax, that well-to-do DC residents could still find representation by seeking out "legislators for hire" of the George Allen, Conrad Burns, Ted Stevens-ilk.

I'm saving all of these posts from Republicans defending Allen. I want to be able to use them when I write my 2041 Best Seller, "The Last Segregationist - The Story of George Allen and Those Who Enabled Him"

[LAS]

Does anybody know where one can see this debate on the Internet? Is it not up yet? I couldn't find it on c-span.org. Help!

James et al, let me get this straight, you're an advocate for the freedom and voting rights of people in the Middle East, but when it comes to those same rights in the US, then you completely discount the issue. If that's not classic hypocrisy, then I don't know what is. Let the record reflect you're not an advocate for the disenfranchised and those without a voice (of course unless it's politcally expedient).

[Dannyboy]

I was referring to the question about Allen's mother's religion. The Macaca Tunisia connection I think was fair game. But the religion one was out of bounds.

[BudManCubFan]

Anon 9:18

I shouldn't be surprise; but rather than addressing the issue I brought up you resorted to personal attacks and trying to change the subject. If we were to believe the Zogby Interactive polls that came out immediately after the macaca furor like so many Webb supporters want us to, then YES he has slipped in the polls. Has he closed the gap from the 20 percentage points that Allen had earlier in the year...yes. However Webb seems to be losing the 'mo that macaca gave him.

[Loudoun Republican]

RETROCESSION: A Great Idea

I for one think that Retrocession (a return of the District of Columbia to Maryland) is a wonderful idea and is neither racist or harmful to the good citizens of the District. It was not racist when Arlington County came back into Virginia via retrocession.
Retrocession is completely allowed under the Constitution and would do the following:

1) A true, non-residential federal enclave made up specified US Government installations could become the "District of Columbia" and the balance of the City of Washington would become a new Maryland County. Immediately, the former District residents would have full repesentation in Congress and would not have to endure this pitiful "shadow" stuff.

2) Maryland would gain another seat in Congress and another electoral vote. The Democrats should like that.

3) The DC Public Schools (ith the highest per student cost in the Nation) would become more efficient and better. The State of Maryland would get rid of the cronyism in the DC public school system that is a Marion Barry legacy that will not go away.

4)Congress would no longer have to worry about maintaining the District; it would only have to worry about the non-residential federal enclave. Ths would save a lot of money for us Virginians who have to subsidize the District through our federal taxes.

I could speak much more about the benefits of retrocession. It is a great idea whose time is not.

Bravo Senator Allen for bringing this up!

[Fairfax Freind]

Allen's retrocession plan would result in the largest tax increase in Virginia history. All of us who commute to DC from NOVA every day would end up paying a big fat commuter tax. I sit in traffic on 66 every day and Senator Allen is building the bridge to no where in Alaska. No he wants to slap me with a commuter tax.

[Not John S. Mosby]

GOPHokie,

Here you go: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/bush_vs_kerry_hth.html

Kerry was doing great after the Democratic Convention (normal), then Bush really kicked it in after his convention (normal). He was still gaining before the debates, then look at the polls immediately after the first debate in September. Those constant 6-12 point leads turned into a lot of 1-4 point leads with some ties and Kerry leads thrown in.

[TCO]

Putting it in Maryland is the fairest thing to do. It came out of Maryland in the first place. It was done with Arlington. And it will not change the political balance (pro or con).

[chuck symthe]

To me and hopefully to other voters, Allen's incidents/ issues concerning "macaca"; Jewish heritage; and use of the "N" word all show something that IS A REALAVENT ISSUE to voters - George Allen is a LIAR. Allen has said: (1) he just made up the word macaca (2) denied Jewish heritage (3) he never used the "N" word in the 70's.

Macaca just happened to fit perfectly? Why would anyone deny his heritage? Grinning George would have to be the only adult white male in Virginia that didn't use the "N" word during the 70's; not that its use indicated a person was racist or even that its use was actually intended to degrade or show any malice - it was just used a lot back then. But rather than tell the truth about these "issues", Allen did what came to him instinctivly - he lied.