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Bruce

I'm sorry? When you are wearing a campaign sticker at a campaign event it leads people to assume they are staff?

Is everyone at every campaign event staff?

What an odd presumption.

Five toupes for a protester being removed? When Streisand's security removed people who booed her for attacking Bush, it didn't even rate one. :)

bye bye George

Video is up over at RK...judge for yourself

Terry

I doubt 3 random Allen supporters would attack a protestor trying to get close to the senator.

Doug

The video shows the people. It'll be up to people who know to identify them.

Wonder if Mike is going to get a deer head delivery too?

MasonLee

He didn't look like a protestor to me. He looked more like a citizen trying to ask his Senator a question that the Senator didn't want to answer.

Allen campaign is becoming totally unhinged. Why was this guy manhandled in this degrading manner? He just asked a question.

Doug

Oh, and nice tiny crowd in the ballroom for Senator Allen.

Wow.

Did you see that Allen supporter, twice the age of the heckler, body slam that heckler!

The heckler appeared out of control from the video. If he approached Allen within a few feet while yelling out, it is within the campaign's right to remove the heckler.

If Webb had a heckler come in on him like that, his campaign staff and/or supporters would have the right to physically stop him and demand that he leave. If not, then they have the right to physically distance the heckler from Webb.

In the case of Allen, it seems that tempers flared, but that it looks like staffers and a supporter took action that may be justifiable.

plunge

Frankly, I think Webb should strongly condemn both the man shouting and the people that tackled him.

It's sort of sketchy to toss around rumors about Allen's divorce on the internet, but shouting out an accusation at someone in public? That's really sort of unhinged. The reaction from Allen's people was also unhinged. So not much to smile about all around.

This is good for Allen. People hate hecklers. Webb should still be able to pull this election out, though.

plunge:

Nonsense. I've been to several Webb events where Jim Webb was heckled at close range by Allen supporters. Never did Jim or his aides behave in this thuggish manner like the Allen staffers did.

This assault is a classless act by Allen and his aides. Indeed, the fish rots from the head.

Doug

And to be fair- yes, it's nuts all around. It'd be interesting to have audio and more at the front end.

But Ben puts this up as a huge scandal because it is, not because they were not justified - we can't know that from this video - but that its a huge deal. Looks like we're about to enter into Taiwanese style democracy. Ted Stevens has been hitting the weights, so it could be an interesting next congress.

Apparently he bumped Allen and got in his face. Wait to see how the media plays this tonight cause it might not be in Webb's favor. Especially since the guy was a kos Webb supporter. If he'd done that to the President he'd have been shot.

Dannyboy

Anon 2:24-
Disagree. This is worse for Allen. It further emphasizes his reputation as a bully, even though he didn't do anything. The video is pretty damning, as the guy doesn't really look that aggresive. But I agree with plunge that Webb should condem both actions.

Maybe Allen should have considered this when he cleared his throat, brought up a big loogie, opened his lips and projected it onto his first wife.

From his blog, it's clear he's been planning this for some time. He really should have taken all the pro-Webb stuff off his blog before he did this. The headline is going to read Webb supporter ______ Allen and is wrestled to the ground. The question is what will fill in the blank? Assaults? Confronts? Questions? That'll determine how it plays.

Dannyboy - The problem is that the video you've seen isn't the only video. This guy clearly crossed the line.

Oh, and don't be surprised if charges are filed against the Webbie.

Did he physically bump Allen first? If so this could be very bad for the Webb campaign.

Steven J. Berke

...'bumped Allen and got in his face'?

That's not what Henry Graff, the local TV guy reporting this, saw, to wit:

[Stark] wasn't able to get near the senator as he was tackled by three men wearing Allen stickers, presumed to be staffers.

Poli-Carp

Yeah. It does look like that guy attacking Allen came unglued.

the newsreporter is discredited by his unfortunate overuse of the phrase "at this point in time"...

Mike Stark was never closer then 20 feet to Allen. Charges are being brought as we speek I suspect warrents will be issued by 6pm tonight.

Allen staffers are going to jail tonight.

Look at the Allen staff rip his shirt off of him. What a disgusting group of fags Allen has on staff. Any excuse to cop a feel. Keep your private life to yourself.

Doug

hmm.. the source story says the guy did not get near Allen, so the bumping thing is not right:

http://www.nbc29.com/Global/story.asp?S=5613839

They have the headline "incident" so far. Pretty neutral.

Dannyboy

Anon 2:32-
True, the only video that I have seen is the one provided on this site:
http://www.nbc29.com/Global/story.asp?S=5613839

Doug

Hey- they rammed him into the glass and the old guy punched him when he was down. Nice.

phriendlyjaime

He looks totally innocent. Unless they have other video, the Allen folks look out of their mind, and Mike Stark will be interviewed all over the place.

Dannyboy

My two cents, and then I'll just wait for the MSM to have thier take on it. If what Anon 2:36 is true, I'd bet that Headline ends up being something along the lines of "Allen Staffers Arrested" or something like that.

I think the question was very inappropriate, but the reaction by Allen staffers even more so. GOP bloggers can try to spin this all that they want, but I doubt this really hurts Webb at all. If anything it damages Allen among the few remaining Undecideds.

Doug

I would think this would roll up to MSNBC first, for national media, because it is an NBC station. That will be the first place to see something deeper. Well, maybe.

doesn't make stark look too good.

I love the image of a bunch of sanctimonious Uva Law Dems all twitchy with how many different charges they can file...

It's a tie: Webb looks bad because a supporter acted up. Allen looks bad because staff got too rough. This is typical local news journalism. They are too stupid and wearing too much makeup and hairspray to understand issues so they run with stuff like this. What's the weather going to be like tomorrow? Can the Redskins beat the Cowboys? Stay on your couch, watch some ads and find out later.

ifthethunderdontgetya

I like all the anonymous A-teamers trying to spin the video.

Steven J. Berke

Gibson is rather gentle in his description of the incident--"pushed away by a former Albemarle County GOP official" (I guess that is the 'old guy' Doug was referring to--who, as far as I could see, did not punch Stark).

Gibson was also sure to pick up the 'Roger and Me' reference from Stark's blog--casting Stark in a negative light by connecting him to the widely detested (now) Michael Moore.

Gibson is a decent reporter. I hope he revises this account.

Terry

ifthethunderdontgetya, I was just thinking the same thing.

Doug

Steven- watch the video- it clearly shows the old guy taking a jab at Stark when he is down. It's quick, but unmistakeable.

Going to "Roger and me" Allen?

For a guy who got accepted to UVa Law, and should devote as much time as possible to STUDYING law as UL1, I find it astonishing that he would 1)post his intent on a blog and 2) follow through with that intent, repeatedly.

I don't think any charges will be filed, and in no way will one of those Allen supporters be shuffled off in hand cuffs today.

Tempers got the best of these people, and it is presumed that this Stark is already a familiar and annoying face.

Mr. Stark: Go study, numbnuts.

Matt

Or maybe it won't mean anything? Sometimes thinks that happen to politicians might NOT have political results?

I think this little incident will matter very little for either Webb or Allen.

I do think that John Kerry probably inadvertently lost the campaign for James Webb with his absolutely stupid comments yesterday.

Doug,

NO WAY IN HELL THAT OLDER GENTLEMAN TRIED TO SUCKER PUNCH THAT YOUNG HECKLER.

He was pointing to the kid and telling him to stop and leave.

Breaux

Those Allen goons should be charged. The one guy came out of nowhere and nailed him. What a bunch of douchebags.

MasonLee

2:55:

"Young heckler"? If I recall correctly, he's a married father of two.

Terry + Ifthe. Not all anon spin is a-team. With +4 lead in polls and 1 week to go, Webb campaign needs to take the high road. Having angry protesters yell at candidate is *NOT* good TV. Stuff like this usually hurts both candidates and Allen's only hope is to drag the whole thing into the mud.

Wow, the guy got his shirt ripped off like he was a dog or something.

Very thuggish and defiinitely an assault.

If this Stark guy is a first year law student at Virginia, with a wife and two kids, then he is a MORON for blogging these intentions and carrying them out.

We are talking Darwin award here, folks.

Doug

You can shout at me, but he punched him, very quickly, when he was down. A sucker punch is something completely different, numbnuts, and I never said that. He jabs him in the middle right at the 45 second mark in that video, after helping to slam his head into the plate glass window.

I'm looking forward to other video, and its great for you guys to play, but this looks pretty bad - as presented by channel 29.

This is becoming a habit among gop staffers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKqvMdMV7hM&eurl=

anonymous is a man

oh please, this is all so petty. who cares. since when can an outspoken grown man not take a tackle.

sheesh.

bye bye George

Who said this Stark guy is associated with the Webb campaign??

Henry

Having a good "close" to a campaign is very important. So kudos to the Allen campaign....this will dominate the news for the next 3 days. From book burning to stomping for votes. Dick Wadhams has run a brilliant campaign!

Rowhey

The video is inconclusive. Without eye witness statements, none of us can truly know what happened before the tape started rolling.

As the Webb campaign has pointed out, many campaign events are "private."

There are so many here who are going to thrash about with statements like "staffers will spend the night in jail", etc., etc.

Unless you were there, you simply cannot know the whole story.

Insider

The Webb supporters are the most negative folks I've ever seen.

ifthethunderdontgetya

In other news,

http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2006/oct/31/va_sen_gop_and_dems_to_spend_millions_in_homestretch

=>Key footnote: The vast majority of the GOP money — $1,074,800 — will be spent on negative ads attacking Webb, rather than promoting Allen himself.<=

Is anyone surprised? Campaigning on the issues? Right.

Doug,

Bullshit.

I've looked at the video twice again, and in no way was that older gentleman trying to strike that heckler. If anything, he was grabing the heckler's arm to avoid HIM from being struck.

Doug

Rowhey- the Omni in Charlottesville is not private. Maybe the meeting room.

I am saying this is all inconclusive, but what we have so far looks very bad for Allen et al. Just so far.

By the way, anyone who thinks the Republican commonwealth's attorney, the Republican sheriff, the Republican clerk, the Republican judges or the Republican chief of police in Albemarle and Cville are gonna charge an Allen staffer is CRAZY.

This raving Stark guy should just shut up for 7 days so that Webb can win with style. Getting a few feet from and yelling at the opposing candidate is foolish. The Allen guys need to use sheepdog herding tactics, not NFL linebacker moves. Another low point.

Rowhey

I will say this, however. It looks as though the old guy ain't too shabby with his takedown moves.

It looks like Stark needs to go to the gym.

ifthe - You're wrong. Allen has completed his final 2 ad buys. One is completely positive and one is an immigration focused ad. Nothing attacking Webb.

Doug

CNN just announced Allen is running a new negative ad about Webb. Oh, and they started the segment with Allen's moment in Breaks. Boo hoo.

Rowhey

Doug,

I seriously doubt anyone will be charged. The rest of this is just hyperbole that has become par for the course in this campaign.

It doesn't make for interesting viewership, though.

Maybe Bubby and I can go a few rounds. He wants to wrestle Wadhams but I'll be willing (bad hip and all) to go a few rounds in the boxing ring with Bubby.

Rowhey

To anon. at 3:09:

Ads can be switched with little notice or fanfare.

Doug

Nice to hear CNN debunking anon 3:09 as he posts. Ha! The negative ad focuses on Jim Webb's novels, and the 8, that's right 8 selected passages that are racey, out of 6 books. Highly touted books by the military.

Guess someone really wanted to be this year's Kilgore. Bing, you win George.

Dannyboy

I agree with people saying that Webb needs to stay positive for this last week. That's why I think the campaigns newest ad is brilliant.

http://www.raisingkaine.com/postComment.do?diaryId=5603#post

Doug

Rowhey- I told you before- Bubby is about the size of Bill Braskey. You don't want to get in the ring with him. I wouldn't either. Neither would Mike Stark. Neither would old "jab em when the dork is down" guy in the video.

Doug - I don't care if you believe me. Just watch your TV over the next few days. You'll see a new completely positive ad with just Allen talking. If you live outside of NOVA, you'll also see an immigration ad. That's it.

LAS

Dannyboy, I could not agree with you more. I LOVE this ad.

Strength and wisdom are NOT opposing values, folks. Tell it to the A-team.

I agree, Webb's new ad is good.

Doug

wow- fantastic ad. This will look great running after or before the latest insane Allen attack ad.

Doug, we all know how big Bubby/Mudcat is and we all know how easy he'd be to take now that he's drinking again.

ifthethunderdontgetya

You mean if you can pick them out from the non stop attack ads the GOP is running, anon@3:14, etc.?

Terry

story is on CNN right now.

Rowhey

Doug,
Bubby has been outed. We know who he is and he doesn't deny it, either.

Terry

Wow, and it looks like he was "attacked" before he even asked the question....

Rowhey

My guess is that ole' Bubby can be found down at the Coffee Pot on Brambleton Avenue in Roanoke.

LAS

From anon at 2:20 p.m.:

"If Webb had a heckler come in on him like that, his campaign staff and/or supporters would have the right to physically stop him and demand that he leave. If not, then they have the right to physically distance the heckler from Webb."

Honey, Webb doesn't need anybody protecting him from hecklers or tough questions or even a physical attack. He can damn well take care of himself. No offense to his staff, but I've seen them, and I'd say Webb is better able to protect himself than they are to protect him.

Allen is like one of those goofy Big Dane Dogs. Tall and imposing, but no heart and no guts. Webb has that ten times over.
ve se
In the case of Allen, it seems that tempers flared, but that it looks like staffers and a supporter took action that may be justifiable.

Posted by: | October 31, 2006 at 02:20 PM

Terry - The video doesn't show the entire sequence. His "confrontation" of Allen isn't on the video everyone is watching.

phriendlyjaime

ISSUES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Terry

Anon 03:20pm, I just sat there and watched it, he was asked who he was, and then pushed back, then he posed the question, and was told he was getting personal and slammed to the ground. I love how the anon's just make shit up claiming to be in the know.

LAS

Hmm...sorry, it looks like I messed that one up. Please excuse me if I repost:

"If Webb had a heckler come in on him like that, his campaign staff and/or supporters would have the right to physically stop him and demand that he leave. If not, then they have the right to physically distance the heckler from Webb."

Honey, Webb doesn't need anybody protecting him from hecklers or tough questions or even a physical attack. He can damn well take care of himself. No offense to his staff, but I've seen them, and I'd say Webb is better able to protect himself than they are to protect him.

Allen is like one of those goofy Big Dane Dogs. Tall and imposing, but no heart and no guts. Webb has that ten times over.

Doug

Rowhey- ok, you got me. I admit it, Bubby is mudcat.

Heh, you crack me up. Now, is Bill White your buddy or his?

furrycat

There is absolutely no justification for the way that guy was treated and manhandled. Another pox on the Allen thuggish campaign.

phriendlyjaime

Furry, you are right. Was Mike Stark a nuisance? Probably. Did he piss off Allen et al? Fuck yeah. Should ANYONE resort to beating him down? NO.

Doug

haha- for funny, wonkette already has this up. No matter fault or what really happened, this is the allen campaign's second Mac**a moment.

"Allen Staffers Beat Up Blogger, Nation Celebrates"

Sorry Mr. Stark, but that headline is funny.

phriendly - Look at the bottom of the article. The RTD just picked up part of Bob Gibson's story.

phriendlyjaime

Saw it. Bob Gibson needs to tell the WHOLE story.

phriendlyjaime -- -

Blame Bob Gibson. If that's not an assault, I don't know what else is.

phriendlyjaime

I do. He deserves to be emailed by one and all.

Rowhey

Doug,
I don't know who Bill White is. Some anon. has claimed that Mudcat and White know each other but White denies knowing him.

Frankly, White is a cat that I don't want to know. Chances are that he is on a watch list somewhere.

I suggest that everyone tread lightly around him. From all accounts, he is not a boy scout.

ifthethunderdontgetya

Wonkette's coverage of the Kitty Harris campaign has been hysterical.

P.S. I threw in a comment:

http://www.wonkette.com/politics/george-allen/allen-staffers-beat-up-blogger-nation-celebrates-211418.php

LAS

From Wonkette:

"Allen’s gotta be feeling pretty low these days if he’s letting his staff do all the roughing up. He outta drag a couple of ‘em across the room by their hair for old times’ sake."

Thaddaeus Toad

Don't waste your breath on Bob Gibson. Nobody reads his shitty paper, expcet maybe on Sundays. The video being all over the evening news will have a much bigger impact than some lame article in the RTD.

phriendlyjaime

bgibson@dailyprogress.com

TT - You do realize Gibson doesn't write for the RTD? The reason his article matters is because it may get picked up by other lazy papers.

Doug

Rowhey- point well taken, actually. I'm dropping all that.

ifthe- oh man, this is going to be savage. It won't make Colbert and Daily tonight, but tomorrow after it has cycled through the MSM tonight.

Thaddaeus Toad

Uh-oh-
Randi Rhodes is covering it too. Sounds like Randi may have found another pet cause a la Paul Hacket.

Toad says ignore Gibson. Phriendly posts his email address. Let's see who the man is in this couple.

You only have to worry about Bill White if you're Jewish.

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