DSCC POLL

Column by NGB

WEBB 47

ALLEN 43

UPDATE BY NGB:  It will now be telling to see if Republicans release their internals to disprove the DSCC poll.  Often, the parties respond by releasing their own numbers.  If Republicans don't, it will be a sign that Allen isn't a strong as they'd like people to believe.

UPDATE2 BY NGB:  The DSCC is now requesting that the Virginia State Bar release the bar application of George Allen.  For those of you who are not lawyers, your bar application requires you to be totally forthcoming about any past incidents that may be of interest to the bar, including past convictions, drug use, plagarism, etc. 

Comments

[Doug]

Not "Webb Internals" but commissioned poll from DSCC.

[not gretchen bulova]

Correct Doug, been trying to get these issues fixed for a bit, typepad is screwing with me!

[Doug in Mount Vernon]

Here we go, it's the first indicator that the Allen stench hit has Kilgored himself into retirement!

Let's keep working our asses off the next week folks, and I bet you next Tuesday night we'll be celebrating a new day for Virginia, a Democratic House with a 20-30 seat cushion, and a Democratic Senate with Senator James H Webb as the deciding majority factor!

[Doug]

Not Ted Stevens could probably explain how typepad is screwing up the Internets tubes. The Googles may have too many George W. Bushes on it too.

[phriendlyjaime]

Um...A-Team? Marco? I. Pub? Lo Scrivano? Any thoughts?

::crickets::

That's hilarious. Even the DSCC can't get Webb over 47 when they commission a push poll. Race is over. Allen 52, Webb 47.

I believe Rasmussen has a fresh poll out sometime this week. And SUSA too.

[phriendlyjaime]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Anon 12:59, are you on shrooms or crack?

That's hilarious. Even the DSCC can't get Webb over 47 when they commission a push poll. Race is over. Allen 52, Webb 47.

[phriendlyjaime]

anon 1:02-You are PLAGIARIZING! TC-write a post about it!

[Not Harry F. Byrd, Sr.]

The book trashing thing was simply a move by Allen to motivate his right wing/religious/book banning base who are extremely disaffected.

[phriendlyjaime]

Well, it doesn't look like it worked, does it?

[Doug]

Somebody better have NTS call up Typepad- they are about to blow a cluster.

[not gretchen bulova]

Yea, this typepad screw up in annoying.

I always take internals with a grain of salt. I'm guessing this race is tied. Allen's internals likely show him with a slight lead also.

[UVA08]

Remember poster after Republican poster saying that Webb not releasing his internals was a sign that he was down? Let's see what the excuses are now. Perhaps the most encouraging news out of this poll is that Allen is below 45% and that Webb leads OUTSIDE of the MOE. Let's do this Dems!

You're a nutbag with too much time on her hands, Phriendly Jaime. Won't the Waffle House give you any day shifts?

[UVA08]

Some are saying that this is an outlier but in light of the LA Times/Bloomberg Poll and the crosstabs with SurveyUSA you can't say that this poll is off. With regards to the crosstabs in SurveyUSA the most interesting numbers are with the Independents. If Webb leads by double digits among Independents there is simply no way Allen will win. Actually, I believe that had the SurveyUSA poll been accurately weighted for partisanship (Republicans will not be over 40% of the electorate in Virginian let alone 42%) it would have showed Webb ahead also.

[Doug]

Wow, that is pretty good. Where was the video shot?

[not gretchen bulova]

Typepad issues, I'm fixing formatting

[Jane Oldham]

Any idea where the other 10% are?

Democrat polls have never been accurate, for obvious reasons. There has NEVER been a legitimate poll where Allen poll this low.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2006/senate/va/virginia_senate_race-14.html#polls

Allen 52%-47%

[Doug]

Looks like they have clustered servers and they have not updated all their clocks. Ahhh... the joys of Linux. I blame Allen for this too!

I believe the voters of the great State of Virginia, in 2006, will stand behind the words of their greatest son Thomas Jefferson, "All men are created equal".

By doing so the voters of Virginia will reject the politics of racism and hate that represents Sen Allen. Now more then 200 years later, I believe the voters of the great State of Virginia will hold this truth to be self evident?

[phriendlyjaime]

WOW-look at this round up of all of the people, Dems and Reps, who think this latest move by Allen was baseless and out of line:

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=15723

[Doug]

Jane- if you read Sisters it might help settle your nerves.

Thanks for pointing that great trend out, and here I thought you didn't live in reality.

Yeah, but did you notice how all the military folks in attendance clapped when Hannity praised Allen. Col. Hunt is an American hero (as is Webb or anyone else who has fought) but it's clear Hunt is in the minority amount military folks on this issue.

[UVA08]

Yeah Jane except for Mason-Dixon a couple of weeks ago..... Then again I guess that wasn't a legitimate poll because it didn't show you what you wanted to see. If you are going to be critical of a poll please do so with so intelligent questions and criticisms.

[phriendlyjaime]

Wait a second-why am I a nutbag, anon/Jane Oldham/I.Pub? BC I agree with others that Webb is winning? Your hate for me is hilarious; love it!

Note: I have never set foot inside a WaFo. They look too nasty for me to even consider sitting down on one of their chairs and ordering a water.

[Doug]

Anon 1:44- a crowd of sailors who wanted to see Hannity. Not sure that's indicitive of broad sentiment. But I did notice the claps. It's just a hilarious episode on Fox. Now, where did Hannity serve?

[Hans Bader]

I feel like the character in the Head-On commercial, who likes the product but hates the commercials for it.

I like Allen's strong record as governor of abolishing parole (which saved many lives, especially among the disadvantaged, who suffer disproportionately from violent crime committed by repeat offenders) and reforming welfare.

And Allen's record in the Senate is better than that of most freshman senators.

But his campaign ads don't leave a favorable impression. The irrelevant focus on Jim Webb's fiction and his statements regarding the Tailhook controversy leave a bad taste in my mouth, and the focus on the former probably increases the likelihood that Webb will win the Senate race next Tuesday.

I'll vote for Allen, but less enthusiastically than I did in 2000.

[ifthethunderdontgetya]

DSCC chief Chuck Schumer is demanding the release of GOP Senator George Allen's Bar Application.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2006/oct/30/va_sen_schumer_demanding_release_of_allens_bar_application_will_dailies_cover_it

Where are the flying toups

www.fudgereport.net

Breaking News

www.fudgereport.net

[JMU Duke]

I heard Ehrlich's internals on the Junkies the morning..I wonder if that was an inadvertent discolusre...

[Doug in Mount Vernon]

I love it, when Allen internals show him "leading" it's supposed to be the end of Webb.

When a respected Democratic pollster (Hart Yang) uses time-tested polling strategies among a group of VA voters that supported Bush 50-42, and it shows Webb ahead 47-43, suddenly it's not only a "push poll" but Webb is gonna lose to Allen.

Desperation with Republicans is so funny to watch.

People who are losing release internals.

[phriendlyjaime]

I agree, Doug in Mt. Vernon with your comment at 2:13, but really 1:13.

[Sterling Ambivalence]

A corrolary -- if instead, Allen releases more pages from long ago written books, we know the campaign is truely desperate.

[Not Harry F. Byrd, Sr.]

"People who are losing release internals."

Yeah... Remember what my friends in elementary school used to say about farts:

Those who smelt it dealt it.

Those who deny supply it.

Wow!

FOX News' Col. Hunt just endorsed Jim Webb over George Allen!

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/10/30/foxs-col-hunt-endorses-jim-webb-over-george-allen/

[Jim's Lil' Bitch]

Oh beautiful Brian Moran. Supporting his candidate and smiling just big enough to steal focus.

It is the only time Moran will be on Fox News and not be mentioned with Teddy Kennedy.

Pretty brave of Mark Warner to stand in front of him. They must have taken Brian's knife when they came through the door.

[Newport News Dem]

I must clean my cache and purge my browswer history. I watch a portion of H&C with the 2:22 link.

Ick...Faux News infestation.

[Is this Jane Oldham?]

This is all trash. I believe in Allen, and I love him like I love God. God and Allen will persevere! You can all go to hell, dirty libs.

[phriendlyjaime]

Oh my GOD-that's hilarious. George Allen's political life is toast.

[Newport News Dem]

Damn....I just got done cleaning my PC from all records of that H&C link and then I watch the video and it is Faux News again......

[Bubby]

Those are not parking ticket arrest records that Allen is hiding.

[phriendlyjaime]

Bubby-tell more, if you know. I have a feeling that he will have to release in the next few days, but give us a hint.

I don't understand why Webb would make the arrest records an issue. They know they're for fishing without a license and parking tickets. Now they're gonna look as petty as the Allen camp. I would have left that one alone.

Bubby knows full well that they're incredibly benign. Much more benign than the things Bubby's been arrested for. Wanna release those records Bubby?

[phriendlyjaime]

They took off the gloves, anon. Why did Allen make an issue with the books? Stupid move by Alen; no one will be talking about Webb's books now, just Allen's arrest record.

[phriendlyjaime]

2:39, you're shitting your pants, aren't you? Hahahahahahaha.

[Bubby]

Damn right it's going to come out...and it better be the truth. There were witnesses.

[phriendlyjaime]

C'mon Bubby-just spill it.

[Thaddaeus Toad]

If they are in fact, simply tickets for fishing without a license, why would Allen have them sealed. In fact, if I were Allen, and they are simply fishing violations, I would gladly release the records. That would make Webb look petty. Allen hasn't released them, which implies they are far worse. Maybe they are postage violations, and Allen didn't put enough stamps on the Bambi delivery.

[phriendlyjaime]

HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Bambi delivery.

[Matt]

I'm gonna guess drunk driving, seems like every Republican candidate back in the day got arrested for some D&D, Allen fits taht mold to a tee. Hell even Democrats get caught for that one. I'm placing my bets on DUI

I believe in 2006 the voters in the GREAT State of Virginia will stand behind the words of their favorite son Thomas Jefferson. " All men are created equal".

By doing so the voters of Virginia will reject the politics of racism and hate that is Sen Allen.

I believe the citizens of the great State of Virginia will hold that truth to be self evident on Nov 7th.

[Doug]

Come on now people! I just talked to Jane and she told me Allen was such a good kid back then, he was actually arrested for running a turtle soup kitched for the poor without a license. That's all. He's a saint.

I like it that the DSCC is asking for the release of the records.

And wasn't it stupid of the Allen campaign to say it was for lack of a fishing licence.

Now anything that has the slightest criminal ring to it make Allen look like the liar he is.

He asked for it. Every bit of it.

Gov. Ehrlich (R-MD) released his without anyone asking.

[Newport News Dem]

Off the hell I go......

Thank God Jane is a good Christian woman.

Let's make this clear ALLEN DIDN'T "HAVE THEM SEALED." That isn't the way it works in Virginia. You can't just "get records sealed." As the Clerk told all the wackos looking through the records, they simply aren't kept that long.

[Rowhey]

Bubby et al.:

You rang. I've been otherwise engaged but here's a quick rebuttal to the complete bovine scathology that has been written on this subject.

I'll provide rebuttal as follows:

1. "Those are not parking ticket arrest records that Allen is hiding."

Bubby, it is put up or shut up time. The bottom line on this one is that the two warrants in question were heard in General District Court. In the Virginia Court System, General District Courts have jurisdiction over misdemeanor cases and civil matters with damages below a certain dollar amount (I'm not sure the limit circa 1973/74).

Regardless, in terms of criminal citations, the underlying offenses by legal definition were rather benign. For if they were not, Allen would have been charged with felonies and the matters referred to the Grand Jury. Such is not the case here.

Either way, it is time to put up or shut up. Throw down son. Quit wasting time.

2. Thaddeus Toad --
"why would Allen have them sealed?"

Thadeus, this question reveals your complete and utter ignorance on the subject matter.

The records were purged after ten years pursuant to law and the policies of General District Clerk of the Court. While the register is still there, any records of a misdemeanor case are automatically purged after ten years.

Take up your beef with the Clerk of the Court or the General Assembly.

[demavatar]

Any incumbent below 45% a week out is dead man walking.

[Doug]

Rowhey- your reading comprehension skills are not quite following this. Look at the top of the post:

"The DSCC is now requesting that the Virginia State Bar release the bar application of George Allen."

They are talking about his bar application, where he would have had to disclose anything he might have done.

[Rowhey]

Doug,

Now you are showing your ignorance. The state bar is not going to cater to every whim or political fancy that you or Bubby might might have.

There are very specific laws and regulations which cover state bar applications.

Gripe all you want and send all the letters from paid political hacks at the DSCC to the VBBE that you can muster. It won't change the law with respect to releasing this information.

[phriendlyjaime]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, Thadd. Rowhey sure told you.

[Rowhey]

Jaime,
Sorry to bitch slap your beau around but apparently he doesn't get the concept that records are purged after ten years.

This leaves you with whatever attempt you can muster to get access to Allen's bar application at VBBE.

The controlling legal authority there is that you won't have much luck.

[Thaddaeus Toad]

Rowhey-
Just what about the violations implies they are minor? DUI is a misdemeanor in most states...hardly a "fishing violation". And if Allen was able to get out of Vietnam, you'd think he had the connections to seal his criminal record. You seem to forget he was a UVA varsity QB, and he son of the Redskins head coah. Wouldn't that make him a hot little shit? Wouldn't UVA want to keep a lid on that? You can't cliam it is nothing, and justify Allen's continued stonewalling. if you're right, Allen should release the records and make us all look like schmucks. We'l be waiting.

[phriendlyjaime]

This is hilarious-the Allenites are back from changing their underwear and they are PISSED.

[Doug in Mount Vernon]

I wonder if it has something to do with the deer head incident?

THAT would be a STORY!

[phriendlyjaime]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you call THAT a bitchslap? I'm the only one who bitchslaps my "beau", dude.

[ifthethunderdontgetya]

You don't tug on Superman's cape

You don't spit into the wind

....

[Rowhey]

Thad,

Why drag UVA into this? They have nothing to do with it. Classic example of how you and your gang start throwing things around.

DUI is a misdemeanor. In the 1970s, it was a much less severe charge. However, even under today's climate, DUI is a misdemeanor offense for the first couple charges depending on the circumstances.

Finally, no one can "seal" his or her criminal records. It doesn't happen that way. Obviously, the register wasn't purged.

Why can't you understand that these misdemeanor cases are routinely purged throughout Virginia pursuant to law and policy?

[Doug]

Rowhey- I was pointing out that this entire thread is about the Bar, not the arrest record. I didn't say the Bar would release the report. I was contradicting your saying that the warrent records were purged- those records don't matter. The bar records do, and they still exist.

The point is, Allen should just get them and post what he wrote about his arrests at the time, if it is fishing. If he told the truth about fishing, that would take 15 minutes to clear up.

[Rowhey]

Jaime,
I'm not charging back at anything because I don't mind seeing you make yourself look foolish.

I'm only countering to the extent that I am seeing complete an utter ignorance of the facts and the law on this particular subject matter.

There are two possibilities at play here:

1. You know the facts and the law but are choosing the ignore them in an weak attempt to score political points; or

2. You are truly ignorant about them.

I choose to believe that it is #2 because I am not going to impugn your integrity. However, you should be on notice that you are Thad are mistaken when you think that the records were "sealed."

[Doug]

Rowhey- the point now, because of Allen's statements, is whether or not these arrests were for fishing. If not, then he lied. Again. Do you get that point?

And if it is, it is listed in his Bar record. He could release that. I have no illusions that the bar would give it to the DSCC. I would expect them never to do that!

[phriendlyjaime]

OK. So Thadd and I are "on notice."

Are you Bill O'Reilly?

With respect to the Bar application, 2 things. First, the VBBE is NEVER going to release someone's application. Second, I doubt many lawyers have copies of their own. I certainly don't.

The truth is, Allen's already said what they were for and there really isn't anything else that can be provided. The GDC records are purged and the VBBE ain't releasing anything. Webb knows that and is just trying to divert attention.

Remember, people who are winning don't release internals.

[akaison]

if there is no fire to go with the smoke- Allen should just release the records. I dont see what he has to gain by dragging this out. To me, this is another of a long list of actions, regardless of what side you are on, that seems just dumb politically speaking. I personally dont think this is anything, but I do think the stink being raised will turn it into something if Allen's people aren't smart enough to realize this here and elsewhere then I am not shocked at where he is. It's never the underlying event that creates a crisis, it's always how you handle the aftermath. Right now, it just seems politically stupid if as the Allen supporters say Allen did nothing major.

[Rowhey]

Jaime,
I'm only putting you on "general" notice to the correct extent of the law and policy governing these matters.

Take the opportunity to educate yourself properly on them before pissing in the wind.

[Doug]

Well, it's all settled now, thanks to anon 3:39 I'm going to have to post my latest internals on poo eating. He just skewed my results, because I didn't poll for poo heads earlier. Sorry Ben. Sorry Jaime.

And I must be losing on the poo front, releasing my internals and all. (AGH! what a horrible pun!)

[Not Roger Jarrell]

Ask ol' Rowhey if oliver North released internals?

I swear he is like herpes. Everytime you think things are under control you have another outbreak...

[phriendlyjaime]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, Doug!

Sorry Ben.

[phriendlyjaime]

I would never piss in the wind. I don't want pee on my legs.

[Doug in Mount Vernon]

Dream on Anon.

If Allen HAD internals showing him up (and please remember this is NOT the Webb campaign, but the DSCC which has plenty more incentive to make sure numbers are correct before they dump millions more into a race like this), do you honestly believe for a SECOND that he wouldn't release them, as he started doing last month post-macaca right before the n-word stories came out?

Dream on. Really, please do. You guys are terrified because Northern Virginia CONTINUES to trend HARD for Webb. He's going to pull 65% of votes up here, and y'all know it.

akaison - Read this very slowly. THERE ARE NO RECORDS TO RELEASE. GDC records are purged. I guarantee you neither Hong Webb, Jim Webb or George Allen has a copy of their Bar applications. There is nothing to release.

[Not Roger Jarrell]

Best political documentary is the one that shows Jarrell, walking around the ballroom, crying when North conceded.

BWAH-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

DiMV - Please show us one example of where Allen has released his internals during this race.

[akaison]

second note:I am an attorney. I am admitted in 2 states so maybe this is why I do this as a practice, but I kept all of my records regarding the moral character application. It's a really big hassle to pull all the extensive info they ask you again (and it was at least a decade ago extensive) so i find it hard to believe that Allen would not have this own record. Second, the reason why the bar keeps these records is in part for the public interest. I don't understand at all the argument that these records are private when in fact the bars of most states keep them for the purpose of figuring out the moral fitness for the bar which deal with issues like fraud etc. I am assuming because he is admitted that there were no such issues with his record. One can be admitted into the bar however even with felonies in most states (depending on the nature of the crime, number of years etc), and I dont know what the rule is in VA because frankly I didn't pay attention since I never had that as an issue. My point is that there is a public interest component to the moral character examination that most states require so its odd to hear that this can't be let out to the public.

akaison - I agree that, if you are planning on getting multiple admissions, keeping your records would make life easier. Truth is though, no one does. Go ask lawyers in your firm who graduated in the 70s for their records. Heck, most states didn't even have the character and fitness portion back then. That said, while you may have a philosophical point that records should be released, you know that in reality the VBBE would never do it.

[akaison]

re: the poll. I agree- there is no way to spin this- if Webb's internals are counter to allens he would release them. That's politics 101,a nd despite what I have seen of Allen's lackluster team (which I am surprised he hasn't fired considering how many things they have bungled), they would know that you dont allow this sort of thing to control the news cycle. Even if Webb's poll is wrong, this will control the perception game- why would any political operative who fancies himself the second coming of Rove ever let the opponent control the spin cycle like this? Answer: I have to conclude that the internals are not that good. I could be wrong, and we will see in the next day or so- if Allen doesn't come out with numbers that will be a telling sign.

[Doug]

akaison- thanks for that information for us non lawyers.

Rowhey:

Then the VBA has every right to release Allen's bar application. Afterall, Allen says he has nothing to hide."My life is an open book."

yeah right.

[bye bye George]

Lets all say in unison

BYE BYE GEORGE

[Rowhey]

To anon at 3:50:

Look at the governing statute, § 54.1-108. Disclosure of official records.

It doesn't give the Board the right to release an application to the public.

[akaison]

doug

no problem- I just notice people come on here or elsewhere to play on the publics ignorance. They figure since you dont know about the moral character application, then that means they get to just make shit up. that's what most of the strategy is these days. count on the low information voter to go vote in ignorance. it's the equivalent of what was attempted with Webb's novel. it was amusing to find out (something I didn't even know) that the book had been recommended by both Free Republic (a conservative blog) and the US Marine Corp. Just going on what I had heard, I wouldn't have known that. The nice thing is that on this issue of the bar membership I can pretty much tell be are bullshitting. There is not reason at all for the bar to not release these records. For that matter, as a public official, there is no reason why allen shouldn't be required to do so. That's the least of what one would expect of his ethical obligations. I do however ulitimately dont think this is very important because I suspect this is a minor issue that they, the Allen team, is turning into something bigger by their own incompetence.

[phriendlyjaime]

That doesn't mean Allen shouldn't release it though, considering his life "is an open book."

[Doug in Mount Vernon]

Anon 3:45,

People were all over this blog in Sept claiming Allen's internals were showing him "pulling ahead" and such, and I recall some that even had numbers with them. You're welcome to cull out all those examples anon. I have a memory, do you?

[ifthethunderdontgetya]

Jaime, I'm sure you don't chew tobacco either. But I can think of a Senator who has done both these things.

[akaison]

ok- a question because legal ethics isn't my area of law: there is no provision for the board to release information if someone is calling into question the moral character of one of the member of the bar? the only reason why we do moral character is to test moral fitness for the purpose of instilling public confidence in lawyers- why wouldn't such a provision or exception exist?