Background on Webb-Bush

A lot of people think Jim Webb may have overreacted to the President Bush when he asked about his son Jimmy at a recent White House function.

I've gotten a tip on the background to this confrontation, and it appears that Webb may have under reacted.

As President Bush is well aware, a couple of weeks before this dinner the tank riding next to Jimmy's in Iraq was under fire and three marines died.

My sources are telling me that the way President Bush approached Webb with his tone, it appeared he was asking the question of how Jimmy was doing in a mocking manner, while he was certainly aware of the tragedy that had hit his unit a few weeks earlier.

Webb has every right to be livid as the Commander in Chief should not be talking about service members in Iraq in a condescending manner like that. I hope everyone can understand what Webb is going through as a parent with death striking Jimmy's unit that closely, and President Bush should have been a lot more sympathetic to Jim's feelings as a parent.

And Jim, thanks for showing the restraint not to knock Bush out when he did that.

Comments

[phriendlyjaime]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wooooooooooooooWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

I love exclusives!

[Doug]

I'm going to scoop you Ben:

"Allen caught and arrested for soliciting a transexual prostitute"

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Stark files assault charges

rather, Stark files civil suit seeking damages for assault

[phriendlyjaime]

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BUSH IS AN ASSHOLE!!!!!!

MORE OF AN ASSHOLE THAN EVER BEFORE!

[Doug]

no no, stark is so yesterday. It's someone killing kittens, I bet.

[phriendlyjaime]

How despicable. I am appalled and disgusted.

[Doug]

Oy. Sorry now I was glib and joking about this before.

Ugh, I feel sick to my stomach.

[phriendlyjaime]

You SHOULD feel sick. A US Senator has a child on the front lines, and all Republicans and the POTUS can do is mock him. Sick, sick, sick.

[hrconservative]

The President would not do this. Whoever gave you this "tip" (i.e. gossip) is mistaken.

[Terry]

Wow, when I first started to read this, I thought you were going to say Webb's son had been killed.

[phriendlyjaime]

OK, I have to ask-how the heck do you know what the president would or wouldn't do?

[hrconservative]

How do you?

[phriendlyjaime]

I don't. But we all read the numerous papers that told the story, and now we have this, yet YOU KNOW HE WOULDN'T DO IT.

[Not Larry Sabato]

HR, what do you think the question meant then? Bush was obviously briefed when the marines next to Jimmy were killed- how did he think Webb would answer the question of "How's your boy"?

[hrconservative]

I know he would not in a mocking manner

this is all based on his "tone" ... that's incredibly subjective

[phriendlyjaime]

Oh, and btw-if he did, what would your oh so important and viable opinion of the president be?

[LAS]

Gee, HR, how about from his past history? Let's see--joking about the missing WMDs while our soldiers were in harm's way? Taunting the insurgents to "Bring it on!" before he beat a hasty retreat.

Examples of him being a major asshole are just too numerous to mention.

[hrconservative]

NLS, it sounds like the normal small talk, and I have never seen the President not care for the soldiers that are in harms way.

The President did not ask Webb in a mocking manner, despite your "tip". (gossip)

[hrconservative]

Saying "Bring it on" is your big explanation, LAS?

Pitiful.

[hrconservative]

Phriendly, hypothetically, in another universe far far way, if the President had done that, he should apologize to Webb and his son.

I believe it happened about 0% though.

[Bruce]

"As President Bush is well aware"
"he was certainly aware of the tragedy that had hit his unit a few weeks earlier."

How do you or your "sources" know what the President knows. Do you really think the President knows who is in every unit that has taken fire?

It may be that Pres. Bush was mocking, but it seems extremely unlikely he would do that - especially with other Senators there as witnesses.

But I can not understand how you can KNOW these things Ben. Did you see his briefing paper? Were your sources the staff who briefed him before he met Webb? As someone who has done briefings for Cabinet secretary's myself, there is know way I could have found out this level of detail on the unit of a Senator's son.

Let's be clear on what we KNOW and what we BELIEVE. They are very different.

[Not Larry Sabato]

HR, you are missing the point. It wasn't small talk like you might have with Webb- because Bush KNEW THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION (which is he is under fire). That alone makes the question totally condesending.

[Dannyboy]

hrconservative-
None of us know what the whole story 100%. But do you have a story that counters this one? Seeing as Jimmy Webb's life is in danger fighting the PRESIDENT's war, and that he almost died the other day, you'd expect that the most powerful man in the world could show a little compassion.

[Not Larry Sabato]

Bruce, there is only one son of a Senator-Elect in Iraq. Of course the President knows what is going on with his unit, don't be ridiculous.

[hrconservative]

Even if the person who gave NLS this gossip, uh, tip, was there, I can easily see someone who does not like Bush to twist anything he says, including his tone.

What's incredible is the people who just fell for this "tip" on this site, including NLS himself. BASED ON A TIP ON SOMEONE'S TONE!!!

[hrconservative]

Dannyboy, no one has a story that counters anything. Are you calling this gossip a story. This is a blog post based on a "tip".

[phriendlyjaime]

BEN-exactly.

You think they aren't watching this closely? Then you don't know much about war or politics.

Or, maybe Bush just isn't doing his job.

Both things could be true...and I suspect they may be.

Sorry Ben, I'm going to adamantly disagree. There's no way Bush would HAVE to know - like you presume - what is going on in Webb's unit. That's absurd.

Could he have known? Sure. But to baselessly claim that he is being briefed on it? I highly, highly doubt that's the case.

[hrconservative]

NLS, so Bush even asking about it is enough for you. Sillier and sillier. He was asking a question, Webb obviously didn't want to talk about it. You are making it much more than it is, based on gossip, on someone's "tone". Now, gossip is gossip. but based on someone's tone???? Sounds like schoolgirl stuff.

[Doug]

Wow, I had not actually seen this before, but people really do defend Bush? Now I get the 30%, I'm just surprised to see it here.

Jaime, step away from the whippets. You just might need those three remaining brain cells.

[phriendlyjaime]

I cannot even believe some of the things that I am reading here.

Now I am sick to my stomach too.

[Terry]

Where's the so called liberal media with this?

Anyone?...........anyone???

[Rowhey]

NLS,

I don't doubt that you have good sources within Democratic ranks. However, I certainly doubt that you have any sources within the Bush Adminsitration let alone the White House.

There is absolutely no way for you to know whether Bush knew that a Marine platoon came under fire.

While Webb may have taken Bush's tone as condescending and one of mockery, it is highly doubtful that the President would have done so in the presence of the other senators.

Now,let's assume that he did know that Jimmy Webb's unit was under fire.

Is it not equally plausible that he was asking the question in the sense that he wanted to know how Jimmy Webb is holding up -- given the fact that he is under fire?

[phriendlyjaime]

Sorry, I don't do whippets. I don't suck on balloons filled with helium from a stupid whipped cream making tube bought from some dirty porn store, all the while getting freezer burn on my hand so I can feel like a brainless ass for oh, 20 seconds at best.

Nice try though. You know, here's a tip: not all people who dress like hippies do drugs.

[Rowhey]

Dannyboy,

I don't think that you can discount the idea that Bush may have actually been trying to show a little compassion by asking about Webb's son.

It is, afterall, a common touch for people to ask about the children of another.

[LAS]

Yes, and referring to Jimmy as "your boy" not once, but twice--I'd say that gives us some idea of Bush's "tone."

HR, I'm saying that Bush does not treat this war or these soldiers in a serious way. The missing WMD video "joke" proves that. As does the "Bring it On!" and "Mission Accomplished" fracas. It's all about winning--and I'm not talking about Bush's War in Iraq.

And, btw, "I have never seen the President not care for the soldiers that are in harms way." Who are you, HR? How often do you "see" Bush?

[Terry]

Jaime, it's no use!! They love to make shit up. As we've both seen from the "swac" clan over the past week.

Rowhey, Ben doesn't HAVE to have sources within the BUSH ADMINISTRATION to get this story, remember, it was a dinner for NEWLY elected congressmen, and I have no doubt he has sources within Webb's "camp."

Once again, where's the LIBERAL MEDIA with this???

[Doug]

Jaime- whippets are laughing gas. Ha! See, you don't do them. And no one should, they are dangerous.

Would it be pointless for me to say something like- there have been document stories of Bush clearly being a sadist- getting enjoyment from others' pain. (The bike riding in 110 degree heat with a group of folks is a great one.) I can see him smirkling over that right now. He is a pissy little smirkler you know.

[Rowhey]

Jaime,

In your defense, the last time that I saw anything resembling a whippet ballon was at a Dead concert at Buckeye Lake circa 1988. There were a few non-using hippies that I could see. Not many. But a few.

[phriendlyjaime]

Doug-yes you are right. But, after being at many Phish shows, I can tell you that people do them with these little bullet looking things that they use to whip cream. You have to crack them and make sure the balloon is over the lip just so so that you don't freezer burn your hand. The reason? Tanks are illegal at pretty much any show, bc the death can be quick.

just an aside.

[Rowhey]

LAS,

In order for Ben to even come close to presuming what George Bush knew or didn't know regarding Jimmy Webb's unit coming under fire, he'd necessarily have to have sources that confirmed he knew it.

Otherwise, he is merely speculating.

[phriendlyjaime]

OK, well, who cares either way? If you want, I will do a post about it, but I think that this discussion (no matter whose side, Bush or Webbb) is a lot more pertinent.

[Roger Jarrell is an Ass]

I don't doubt for a second that you are correct Roger. I am sure Bush had no idea that three Marines in Jimmy's unit were killed. In Bush's world. "All is well."

I bet their families knew it though. I bet the families of the close to 3,000 other service men and women knew that their loved ones had died.

And who's hands are covered in blood?

Shame on George bush for not knowing. He is the Commander In Chief, there is no excuse for his not knowing.

Moreover, shame on you for defending the indefensible.

I know that you're carrying water for the GOP, but is there not an ounce of decency left from your days at VMI?

How does a cadet take the side of a swaggering, drunk-driving, draft-dodging, ill-advised, fascist over that of a man in service for his country.

Have you no decency?

Pray for Jimmy until his dad can get him and his fellow troops home safe.

[phriendlyjaime]

I just don't see why anyone would think that Bush was ever going to be nice to Webb. We all knew he wouldn't, and vice versa. So, this isn't that surprising to me.

But it's appalling and disgusting, and I want more info.

[hrconservative]

There are things you see in President Bush WHEN HE IS DEALING WITH THE SOLDIERS that can't be faked. Just like any political, there are times when the President is lying through this teeth. But this isn't it. I just can't believe people are so quick to believe this gossip.

With all the President has to deal with, I am still not convinced he knew exactly what was going on with Jimmy Webb. Just like the CEO of a big corporation, the President has Rumsfield under him (or did), and Rumsfield/Gates have many under him who have many under them, etc. The top guns are briefed constantly, at a very high level, and make decisions, but they do not nor can they keep up with even half of what is going on with Iraq. I seriously doubt Bush knew about Jimmy Webb. Even if he did, I doubt he mocked Jim Webb's son.

[Rowhey]

To anon. at 4:47:

I'll tell you what. When you have the decency to not post with veiled references to what you presume to be my real name...and you decide to have a personal discussion with me, I might then hear you out.

Until then, bugger off.

[Doug]

The Bushy is so darned caring! Yes he is...

http://www.thecarlletters.com/letters/684bushs%20_G.jpg

[Terry]

"I am still not convinced he knew exactly what was going on with Jimmy Webb."

Who cares!?!? It was still a nasty thing to have said to Jim Webb. The fact that Jimmy Webb had 3 marines in his unit killed 2 weeks ago is just compounding.

[Rowhey]

jaime,
I'll tell you what. If Bush was being condescending to Senator-elect Webb. SHAME ON HIM!!!

If Senator-elect Webb was being rude to President Bush in the White House, shame on him.

There comes a time when we must all put aside partisan differences.

I pray that Jimmy Webb and his buddies make it home.

Until then, I am proud of him and the others for the sacrifices that they make for this country.

They are all heroes in my book. And, I think that you have recently written that we shouldn't make the sacrifice of those in harm's way a political talking point.

[hrconservative]

What was nasty, Terry? Without the tone argument that someone gossiper told NLS about, without the "He knew and asked anyway" argument, which is weak even if true, this becomes the President asking about Jim Webb's son. Wow, how insulting!

Terry, I am getting ready to insult you!, are you ready. . . . .How are you?

[Dannyboy]

Rowhey:
If Bush was trying to truly ask about Webb's son, don't you think there are better ways to do it? Don't forget Bush's condecending and indignant response after Webb showed his own concern for his son saying he'd like to get him home. Again, the proper response from Bush would've been "And we'll get him home as soon as we get the job done." Reiterates Bush's "stay the course" attitude without being rude.

[Thaddaeus Toad]

Wow, that adds a little spice to this sordid tale. Of course, the only defense offered up by Bushbitches is that, as usual, the President was ignorant of this. Is it hard to believe that the President didn't know that the son of an incoming Senator on the Armed Services committee was nearly killed in HIS war? For a decent President it would, but we're talking about 7 minute George.

Bush is either out-to-lunch, or an asshole.

[Dannyboy]

And as to the bugger off part, well, I had no idea you were British. In America, we tend to use a different word up front :).

[Terry]

hrconservative, that made absolutely NO SENSE, and has nothing to do with the topic at hand. You know just as well as I do that "I didn't ask you that, I asked you how he was doing..." sounds of a condescending nature. Nice *attempt* at a spin job though.

[akaison]

GOP, Party of the South.

[Doug]

Bush the sadist:

Big quote: "
Bush is a textbook sadist.

A sadist is someone who obtains pleasure from inflicting pain or others. We can still see glimpses of this characteristic in our President’s distant, heavily sanitized past. It has been reported that the young George Bush tortured frogs, and shot at his younger brother with a BB gun. We know he saw nothing wrong with branding fraternity pledges while at Yale.

For a man of Bush’s current station, personally dishing out such physical abuse is far too risky. But the absolute power he now enjoys creates unmatched opportunity to inflict psychological pain, which can be worse for the victim, and thus more exquisite for the tormentor. Recall that the Abu Ghraib guards force-fed inmates pork and alcohol because those things were banned by their religion – torture in the form of forced betrayal of the victim’s beliefs. Cause and effect may not apply here, but either way, Bush could well have progressed from his childhood pleasure of torturing small animals to taking pleasure in the willingness of minorities who betray their own in order to advance their careers.

George W. Bush doesn’t just torture minorities, of course. Witness his comedy routine at this year’s Gridiron Club dinner at which the President joked that he had the “dangedest puppy” who would roll over on command - but only some of the time. “I renamed him ‘John McCain.’”

"

http://www.rawstory.com/exclusives/steinberg/sadist_or_queer_eye_032805.htm

[akaison]

GOP, Party of the South.

[Rowhey]

Dannyboy,
Neither of us were there. We didn't hear the conversation...and couldn't see the expressions on either man's face.

I think we are both engaging in idle speculation based on double or triple hearsay, frankly.

Too many people on both sides are trying to score cheap political points these days. At this point, I would hope that both men could foster a meaningful professional relationship such that Virginians and all Americans benefit.

[Dannyboy]

Thaddeus:
I get the feeling that a lot happens in Iraq that doesn't see its way to Bush. Oh, sure, it get's to the administration, but the President's baby-sitters don't pass it on.

[Rowhey]

Thad,

The real asshole here is the shameless coward who posts what he presumes to be my real name without stating his/her real name.

I thought we'd all moved past this chicken shit kinda stuff.

Is that American enough for you, Dannyboy?

I have a few other anglo-saxon words I can invoke if you are so inclined.

[Doug]

Bush the sadist:

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/2618

"In the interview, Bush imitated Tucker with an exaggerated whimper, saying, "Please don't kill me." Even famously right-wing Carlson was shocked at Bush's behavior, and he wrote that as Bush performed this sadistic imitation, "I must look shocked ˜ ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel ˜ because he immediately stops smirking.""

[Doug]

oops- forgot all the quote:

In 1998, Bush signed the death warrant for a woman named Karla Tucker, who was executed on February 3, 1998. In an interview with Tucker Carlson that appeared in the September 1999 issue of Talk Magazine, Bush mocked Tucker's last-minute pleas for clemency. In the interview, Bush imitated Tucker with an exaggerated whimper, saying, "Please don't kill me." Even famously right-wing Carlson was shocked at Bush's behavior, and he wrote that as Bush performed this sadistic imitation, "I must look shocked ˜ ridiculing the pleas of a condemned prisoner who has since been executed seems odd and cruel ˜ because he immediately stops smirking."

[Rowhey]

Doug,

Do you support the death penalty?

[Roger Jarrell is an Ass]

How is me being "Roger Jarrell is an ass" any different from "Rowhey." I am sure you have a personal connection to that name, just as I know personally that "Roger Jarrell is an ass."

Look back through your postings Roger, you'll know who I am. Are you going to sue me too?

[hrconservative]

Alright, I leave you guys to your delusions. But, the only spin job here is the original blog post, from a "tip", on someone's tone.

[Doug]

Rowhey- nice try. That has nothing to do with Bush sadistically mocking a woman sentanced to death. Don't you try to willie horton me here!

:)

[Dannyboy]

Rowhey:
This has just barely touched the MSM. The only idle speculation is in the blogs. The rest of the country is over elections for now, and is ready to sit back and wait for the primaries to fully kick in.

And yes, that's definitely American enough.

[Rowhey]

To anon at 5:07pm.:

While I may know who you are, the good folks that read this blog site might like for you to finally come out of the proverbial closet.

Last time I checked, I haven't sued anyone -- but then again -- the statutue of limitations hasn't run either.

[Terry]

Judging by how excited the Republicans posting on here seem, I think it's safe to say they feel like they may have a problem on their hands...

[Rowhey]

Well, Doug, I am personally offended by Bush's comments regarding Carla Fae Tucker. They were in poor taste.

Even still, I support the death penalty.

I'm curious to know whether you do as well. You've described yourself as being a different kind of Democrat -- so I am naturally curious to know whether it rings true or not with respect to this particular issue.

[NotLarrySabato'sLawnboy]

this is a non sotyr everyone get over it.... u are speculating what is in peoples minds..... i tell u one thing that is in Jim Webb is mind.... he's a republican

[Dannyboy]

Wow, RJIAA and Rowhey are really going at it. Don't stop guys, I'm just going to go get some popcorn.

[Rowhey]

Dannyboy,
Actually, RJIAA and I probably knew each other in the RW.

It does get right funny - I'll admit. It would be a lot of fun if he and I could have a charity boxing match. All proceeds going directly to the home for broken down old political hacks.

[You are dead wrong NLS]

This is nothing but spin by the Webb people who in fact should be embarassed at Webb and apologizing. From a source who was really there GWB said to Webb " I hope we can work together on some issues" and the not pleaseant at all bt o so arrogant Webb said back " I don't see that happening"

One doesn't go to another person's place and pick a fight and that is exactly what ill tempered Jim Webb did. Expect to see a lot more of this pattern in the years to come and remember this was just one of the first examples of how ill manned JIm Webb is. Probably is a good thing he got someone who worked for JIm Moran as his Chief as he wll be used to being around someone who regularly embarrasses us when he goes out in public. Wonder when Webb will start picking on little kids like Moran did ?

[Roger Jarrell is an Ass]

Nor has the time limit for you to learn how to spell statute.

Anyone know any good West Virginia lawyer jokes?

You still haven't answered the question of decency. How does one reconcile their honor as a cadet with that of toting water for a stuttering, gin-swilling, 40 acres and fool faux rancher?

Seems like an easy question if you ask me. Here is a link for you. http://www.vmi.edu/show.asp?durki=4338

Do you think George W. Bush knows about these soldiers?

[Jason]

Spin, spin, spin, spin, spin.

Anyone else dizzy?

We're taking an unnamed, anonymous source's quote for the exchange word for word and treating it as the honest to goodness truth? C'mon...

The President asked a question with what we should assume is genuine concern and Webb responded as most parents with kids in this situation would. You're going to automatically assume Bush's motives were political and rude yet Webb's were not? Spin it the other way, Webb took a genuine concern founded question and made it a political statement.

No, both men reacted as they should have and to make this anything more is to simply spin it for your own pleasure and purposes.

[Rowhey]

RJIAA,

I've got to admit it. You seem to have a real knack for going after "faux ranchers."

What gives? Do you have acreage envy? Last time I checked, Bush's ranch consisted of a 1000 plus acres.

Second, that was cheap ploy to post a link of those VMI grads who paid the ultimate sacrifice.

One of those names belongs to my former editor of the student newspaper. He died at the Pentagon on 911. He wasn't even supposed to be there that day.

What does he have to do with your opposition to the Iraq War? Leave him out of it. Let him rest in peace.

I knew many of the others on that list...and others who did in 1991 and 1993 -- in combat or otherwise.

The only joke around here is you.

You still haven't answered my question. When are you going to come out of the closet and reveal your identity?

[Dannyboy]

Rowhey:
Dude, I'll set it up.

[Jason]

Rowhey - Why should he identify himself? Anonymous commenters rule this site, why should this one be any different? Ignore him if ya don't care for him.

[Dannyboy]

Jason:
I don't know how to type the sound of applause. Thanks for keeping everybody's feet on the ground.

[Rowhey]

Dannyboy,
If you can sell tickets for this 30 something dude with a bum hip to take on an aging bloviating jackass like RJIAA, I'll gladly step into the ring.

He won't come out of the closet, however. He is a coward.

I have left hook with his name written all over it.

[Poli-Carp]

Utterly tasteless. I know he was born fightin', but now it is time to quit fightin' and start representin' Virginny. The campaign is over, guys. You won it. Now don't ruin your legacy before they're even sworn in.

[Roger Jarrell is an Ass]

In the words of OUR President, "That's not what I asked you," how do you defend a Commander who is not aware of the sacrifices of his troops.

I honor all of the men and women who have sacrificed, and their families who will pay an enduring price. I posted the link because it is very easy to blow this off if you don't know the folks involved.

When it is personal, say for instance your son, it becomes grotesquely apparent that the person mocking their sacrifice is just another guy who puts his pants on one leg at a time.

I will admit the idea of your left hook does leave me a bit weary. The last time I saw you, it was apparent your left elbow had seen a lot of action.

[Jason]

RJiaA - In the SUPPOSED words of our President as quoted by an anonymous source who seems to lean Webb.

[phriendlyjaime]

What the hell?

[Jason]

Jaime - My response exactly when I found out Sasquatch wasn't real.

[phriendlyjaime]

No, I just got home and clicked, and it was all bat shit crazy in here. Suing, and punching, and left hooks...

Carry on.

[Jason]

Isn't "bat shit crazy" the norm, though?

[Dannyboy]

Wow, trying to find out who RJIAA is. It's like a game. Can we do this like 20 questions? Okay, i have three.

1) Are you a Democrat?
2) Do you blog on DailyKos?
3) Have I ever called you an ass?

Bush is lost in ineloquence , banality and rudeness.

[Rowhey]

RJIAA (a/k/a the venerable "you know who I am"),

I'll answer your question regarding the Commander in Chief. I happen to know that he is personally aware of the death of at least two of those men listed on that link you provided.

Don Rumsfeld also acknowledged them in speeches..and elsewhere.

This gets back to a major problem that you have.

You make an allegation...and then the facts always seem to leave you "high" and "dry." Although the word on the street these days is that you are no longer "dry."

What happened, did you lose your sponsor?

[Roger Jarrell is an Ass]

Dannyboy,

Yes.

Sometimes, but not recently.

No, but I have thought it about you. Just kidding.

[Terry]

I wish you righties would STOP SAYING this hasn't been confirmed. Jim Webb CONFIRMED IT HIMSELF!
From today's WaPo:
"I'm not particularly interested in having a picture of me and George W. Bush on my wall," Webb said in an interview yesterday in which he confirmed the exchange between him and Bush. "No offense to the institution of the presidency, and I'm certainly looking forward to working with him and his administration. [But] leaders do some symbolic things to try to convey who they are and what the message is."

[Jason]

Ineloquence? So he lost in his lack of eloquence?

[Rowhey]

RJIAA,

I think think that you should rest comfortably knowing that I've never sued anyone.

And, I haven't thrown a left hook at anything other than a punching bag in 15 years.

Jaime, to answer your question about how things got "bat shit" crazy around here, RJIAA started it by trying to invoke what he presumes to be my real name.

Further, he posted a link to certain VMI grads who have been killed since 911.