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LoudounYoungDem

How is it that Jeff Dion loving his kids, being an involved father, and being involved with community activities has become "an issue"?

James Martin

As an Eagle Scout... I have to say that Jeff Dion should get a medal for being involved in his community not be chastised by Right Wing Bloggers.

kindler

SHOCKER -- CANDIDATE IS A CUB SCOUT LEADER!

Remember the good ol' days when scandals actually involved something scandalous?

Riley, Not O'Reilly

Here is what I had to say about it (that Ben linked to above as well):

"As I’ve said before here and elsewhere, Dion’s sexual orientation is irrelevant, especially compared to where he stands on issues of taxes and regulation that could impact his potential constituents’ daily lives in a very real and negative way. But with this issue regarding the Boy Scouts and whether Dion has been fully forthcoming with them, this raises an important question regarding the candidate’s honesty and integrity — one that the citizens of Occoquan deserve to have answered before the Jan. 30 special election."

It is simple as that. The Boy Scouts have a prohibition in place and, whether you agree with that or not, Dion appears to be in violation of that prohibition. This goes to Dion's overall credibility and would reflect on how he would approach issues such as taxes and regulation -- would he tell potential voters one thing and turn around and do something else upon election? Just something for the voters to weigh. (I'd say the same thing if Dion was a Catholic involved in an organization the Church prohibited membership in.)

James Martin

Riley, Not O'Reilly,

How i can tell you were never involved in Scouts, Scouting is more of an idea than an organization, with the National BSA being universally being recognized as a group of idiots.

Kindler hit the nail on its head, "

SHOCKER -- CANDIDATE IS A CUB SCOUT LEADER!

Remember the good ol' days when scandals actually involved something scandalous?"

Bubby

What's happening? Is Jeff Dion attempting to become James Young's Scout Leader?

Dannyboy

I find it fascinating that the right-wing blogosphere, Greg L in particular, really have it out for Dion. Is it because he's gay, a gay man that has children...what is it? Please, somebody inform me.

Nate de la Piedra

Ben,

Now you have stepped over into unethical (yet again). You are attacking a man for being involved in his kids life. Right-wingers bitch and moan about a "family life" going on about the need for two parents (I'll tell you my life improved after my parents got divorced and I lost touch with my father).

So Jeff, after his divorce keeps in touch with his kids, not only stays active in their lives, but volunteers his time to help his son and other sons of the community and he is attacked for it.

You should be ashamed of yourself for propagating
such horse shit.

You write "Lesson for future candidates: Release everything about yourself. This wouldn't be an issue if Dion addressed it in advance, but instead he has handed his opponents an issue.", do you suggest he tells you where he goes to the gym and how often he goes to the supermarket, because that is about as relevant as this.

truthteller

NLS,

First acting as if the Democratic race for President is over without a single vote being cast, despite Hillary's spineless unwillingness to take clearcut principled positions on the prime issues of the day, and the presence of at least two to three other serious contenders in the Democratic field.

Then, supporting attacks on a Democratic candidate for loving his kids and serving as a scout master and justifying right wing bloggers invoking a biased standard to support make an issue out of a non-issue.

I'm seriously beginning to doubt your political instincts and the long-term viability of your accuracy rate. Will you lower your accuracy rate to 75% if Hillary is neither the Democratic nominee nor the next President?

phriendlyjaime

Yesterday, Thadd and I had a dinner party for the 2 of us. We had wine pairings with the different courses, busted out the nice dishes, the whole bit. The reason? We had our Godfather marathon evening, where we make sure to get crap done during the day so we can drink, eat and be merry in front of the TV, watching 7 hours (only GF 1 and 2; 3 isn't worth crap, imo) of some of the best movie making of all time.

In GF2, as most of you are probably aware, the Corleone family set up the Senator from Nevada bc he was trying to blackmail the family, which is pretty much the biggest joke in the movie. Some pasty Senator from NEVADA tries to mess with the biggest crime family in the country? Please. So, the Senator goes out to party, and wakes up hungover and in bed with a dead, bloody hooker. He has no idea how he got there, but luckily (not for him, really) it happened in one of the casinos owned by the Corleones, so they were able to "help."

Anyway, the reason I am saying all of this is bc I agree with the sentiments above; I wish scandals were scandals again. It makes life much more interesting.

NLS, Greg L, & even James Young have done nothing wrong in reporting this story.

Unfortunately, Jeff Dion appears to be a liar.

I personally think the boy scouts rule is idiotic. Homosexuals are not pedophiles. They do not "recruit" little kids into "the lifestyle."

However, the Boy Scouts are VERY VERY clear that involvement in Scouts and gayness do not mix. Only a complete moron is not aware of the prohibition. He is teaching his children a terrible lesson - he is above the rules; the rules don't apply to him; he doesn't agree with the rules, so he's just going to do as he pleases.

There are plenty of ways to be involved in your child's life and still behave ethically.

Unfortunately, Mr. Dion seems to have decided that what HE wants to do is paramount.

James Young

Thank you, Ben, for recognizing the real issue. More's to pity that your commenters --- most of whom undoubtedly oppose the BSA's position on the issue of homosexuality (I believe Martin has publicly done so) --- will try to play the victim card rather than recognize the honesty issue. Nate does so with characteristic class and aplomb.

BTW, James, since when is whether an aspiring public official is "trustworthy" or "honest" not a "scandal[] actually involved something scandalous"?

truthteller

liar is a strong word... do parents of scouts have to take an oath/ plesge to being straight? Unless he said he's straight in order to get his kid into the scouts, the he was being above board and if the scouts had an issue with it, it was on them to publicly remove him if they want to enforce their bigoted policy.

Poli-Carp

There is an integrity issue here. Of course, there aren't too many folks left in politics with integrity, so I reckon this scandal is moot.

James Young

Well, I'll just keep tilting at windmills, "Poli-Carp."

And "truthteller," if you don't understand that the point here is Dion's artful statements used to leave untruthful impressions, and his apparent effort to obscure facts relevant to the BSA in its choice of leaders, then you've clearly picked a pseudonym equally inappropriate to your true "standards."

webb slinger

You all should realize that this is a big deal.
Anyone who is saying otherwise is deluding themselves, or doesn't have kids.

truthteller

Artful statements? Like what? Phriendly Jaime is right, if this is the best that the GOP can come up with, they are on as much of a fishing opposition as the WaPo's resident Dem-inquisitor John Solomon who made a mountain out of a non-scandal on John Edwards' real estate sale.

Poli-Carp

James,

I agree it should be news. Too often we ignore these telling signs about someone's character, or lack thereof. And as usual, the Dion partisans are following the Democratic mantra of "it's just about sex; do we want the government in our bedrooms?" Well, it isn't about sex; it is about character. I don't care about a candidate being gay; I do, however, care about him not living up to his promises, i.e. to live a life proper of a Boy Scout role-model. And I don't know any Scouts who believe the BSA to be a joke. You can be a parent supportive of your scouting children without being a pack leader.

However, the people will fall for the "it's just about sex" line and ignore the more important consequences of Dion's choices.

Not Larry Sabato

To me, the bigger issue is whether he told the other parents of kids in his den.

If I was a parent, I wouldn't care if the "den mother" (thats what they were called when I was in cub scouts) was a gay man.

However, I would want to know.

Poli-Carp

It comes down to the fact that the guy lies when it is convenient so he can do as he pleases. Is that fact important to whether he is fit for office? I'd say yes, but that standard would disqualify most of our elected officials, whether Republican or Democrat.

Jaime, the civilized world doesn't consider Mad Dog 20/20 wine.

t

Report from the field re: the ever-increasing hostility of the pro-abortion movement. A fellow pro-life prayer warrior of mine reported this incident yesterday from the abortuary:

“The abortion clinic’s cleaning lady was leaving work, but she was not quite finished for the day…

Our eyes locked — separated by a scant 25 feet: she driving her car, out of the parking lot; me striding along the sidewalk, in the middle of the driveway.

I read her face, as if from a cheap grade-B movie; the look: something akin to determined hatred.

She stomped the gas.

Her car jerked and lurched forward.

I stepped lively, as if being assisted by an unseen force.

The car shot past.

ZZZOOOOOOM!

Careening down the driveway, onto the street, its bottom scraped noisily against the road, before screeching thru a full 90 degree turn and speeding away across the Boulevard.

A police report has been filed.

…another day at the killing center.”

Here is PROOF that Jeff Dion is CUBMASTER, not "just" an involved parent:

http://www.pack1364.org/main.htm

The link at the bottom says contact our cubmaster - guess who it links too - Jeff Dion.

This is BIG, BIG, BIG.

It's unfortunate that so many are blinded by biases that they are oblivious to the fact that he has taken a leadership position in an organization which CLEARLY states he may not do so.

THAT means he lacks integrity.

--- Signed, the poster at 2:03 pm

"There is a battle of significant consequence taking place in the lives of boys in America today. In simple terms, it is the battle between doing what is right or wrong. A recent study conducted by Louis Harris & Associates indicates that the proportion of boys choosing to do what is wrong is alarmingly high. Even basic values such as not cheating on schoolwork and not stealing seem to be unstable.

Clearly, the results of this study indicate that our nation's youth are struggling with ethical and moral decisions, and that these difficulties can only increase with age. Therefore, the need for reinforcing and rewarding strong moral standards and providing positive role models at a young age is more important than ever before.

Cub Scouting is fun! But it is fun with a purpose. Woven though all the fun is an inspired program that really works. Tried and proven methods are used that transfer traditional values, build character, and develop leadership skills -- all in the context of fun and family togetherness."
(BSA: Operation Tiger Mania 1996)

Ghost of Henry Howell

I don't live in Jeff Dion's neighborhood, but I have no problem with him as a cubmaster (or scoutmaster) to my boys.

Finally, we find a Dad who gives a damn about his kids, and look at the crap he gets?

Jambon

Thank goodness for James Young and his investigative blogalism.

When he's not trying to destroy collective bargaining rights during his day job, he's scouring the rolls of the Boy Scouts looking for queers.

It's kinda like a new form of McCarthyism disguised as a "honesty and transparency". Give me a break...

I.Publius

"really have it out for Dion. Is it because he's gay, a gay man that has children...what is it? Please, somebody inform me."

Ummmm, maybe it's because he's deceitful. Yeah, that's it.


"Homosexuals are not pedophiles. They do not "recruit" little kids into "the lifestyle."

First of all, a very large number of Boy Scouts are not "little kids." Secondly, you know this to be true? No homosexual men try to turn men they're attracted to over to their side?

Most of the gay friends I've had over the years (a lot - I used to bartend in two different gay nightclubs) have admitted that they readily attempt to "find out" whether or not a supposedly straight man is gay. And yet you know for a fact that no twenty-something gay scout leader tried to "find out" if a 16- or 17-year-old scout was gay.

If you -know- that for a fact, that would be a very amazing feat.

Interested Observer

NLS - why would you like to know? Would you care if the den mother was a lesbian? What else would you like to know? Do you have your own personal background check someone needs to go through? Maybe they should tell you their ethnicity and religion as well? Quite frankly, the fact that someone is gay is really none of your business. It isn't like they are out "recruiting" third graders to be gay. In fact, sexual orientation is simply not something that would come up as appropriate conversation with 3rd graders. Just as the sexual habits of heterosexuals wouldn't.

Now, the issue of what the BSA have as a policy is something completly different from whether you as a "parent" have a right to know - how many kids do you have NLS?

Speaking of which blogging "ethics" what's the status on Phil & Kate's marriage? That story seemed to die - without an apology or anything. Talk about cheap shots.

Interested Observer

I.Publius - we are talking about 1st through 5th graders here, not high school students. However, the point is still the same, there is no evidence that homosexuals are any more likely to be pedophiles than heterosexuals. There is a big difference between men liking other men and men liking boys.

Speaking as an adult, heterosexual male, I am not interested in 16-year old girls. Maybe we should all be up in arms because Chris Craddock coaches high school girls soccer. We know how his mind tracks...

James Young

Uh, "Jambon," only a far-Left fool who has no confidence in the ability of union bosses to persuade employees of the value of union membership would describe as "trying to destroy collective bargaining rights" --- actually, special privileges granted to no one else under American law, not "rights" --- my "day job."

Oh, wait. Your name links to Raising Dough ... er, "Raising Kaine." Like I said.

Sean Holihan

I'm honestly surprised about this whole situation.

This is "big?" A "scandal?"

You've got to be kidding me. I do not know Mr. Dion. However, from what I've heard about him from this discussion is that he is a caring father. And that is somehow being made a bad thing?

Those that would use this against Mr. Dion obviously have a preexisting bias against gays. Nothing could be more evident.

What about those that served in the military before "Don't Ask/Don't Tell?" Those brave men and women who served during World War I & II, the Korean, Vietnam and first Iraqi Wars? Are they any less honorable? Should those that served be stripped of their medals? Because what we're talking about is very comparable here.

Jeff Dion sounds like a man that cares about his children, period. I, and I'm sure Mr. Dion, hope his opposision uses this argument. It'll be an easy run.

Matt

As a former Boy Scout, I know the most important thing for every troop is a parent's involvement with their son's experience in the troop. Every adult leader in our troop was imperative to giving the boys in a troop a good experience. The logistics necessary to set up a good camping trip, getting all the drivers necessary, making sure every boy can afford the trip, making sure everyone has the camping supplies necessary too, these are all important things necessary to go on our trips. This sounds like a bitter pill from conservatives to get this man kicked out of his troop because of his sexuality. Not only is it damaging to him, his children, and his troop, its also personally reprehensible. I find no other reason for this to be posted except for the fact that this man is gay. If anybody knows anything about the Boy Scouts, is that not every troop is full of Homophobic assholes, but maybe Mr. Young assumes that his troop was the model.

David

This is a joke. In practice, most people involved in scouting couldn't care less about enforcing that silly, archaic policy. They mostly just ignore it, the way that most Catholics ignore the prohibition on birth control. I agree with Sean - please, keep diggin' that hole.

Hey Pube-

Try reading the post again.

Is that really all you got out of it? If so, you really are an idiot. Talk about blinders.

Jambon

"Raising Dough". Good comeback James!

almost as good as Lloyd Bensten's "You're no John Kenneddy" zinger.

or not.

James Young

Yeah, Jambon. I figure that it's nearly as good as your comeback attacking my law practice. Or not.

Oh yeah. And Matt, that "homophobic" smear might impress people who confuse belittlement with argument, but if that's the best that you can do....

Of course, the best thing would have been for Dion to not involve himself in an organization which, on principle, excludes those who engage in his type of activity, and also frowns upon lying. 'Course, we all know that you on the far Left will resort to any tactic to push your far Left agenda.

There's still hope for Ben, though, since he's clearly not that kind of nihilist. Hence, the vicious attacks in the first few posts.

Sean Holihan

It never ceases to amaze when those on the "Far Right" accuse those of us on the "Far Left" of pushing the agenda of equal rights.

It's just so cute and anachronistic.

David

"Cute" may be pushing it a bit in this case.

phriendlyjaime

anon 4:48-

I would have a lot more disposable income if my tatstes weren't so refined. So, NO on the mad dog. I'm a liberal elitist, remember? I don't even drink merlot.

Sean, who's being denied equal rights? Do you even understand what it means? Apparently not.

Anonymousisawoman

Poor Mr. Young and his fellow far rightwingers. They keep calling everybody who disagrees with them, and who is even the slightest bit progressive "the far left."

That's only because any concept of moderate or centrist simply eludes their thought processes.

I've actually known far leftists. I've read their literature and arguments and it is no where near what unions stand for.

For example, while unions want bargaining rights to negotiate contracts for their employees, most unions do not favor socialism or a centralized, planned economy. Socialism has pretty much failed and most people accept, even embrace, the free enterprise system.

In fact, the AFL-CIO kicked communists out of its organization during the 40s and 50s.

Many veterans of both Vietnam and Iraq are union members. Unions uphold patriotic values and love America just as other groups of Americans do.

What they seek, economic fairness for their employees is a part of America's tradition too. Americans love fair play and root for the underdog as much as they value freedom for all.

When a CEO goes to work for a company, he first signs a contract to protect himself from being fired and to provide him with the best compensation package he can get, including perks and fringe benefits that include not just generous insurance and pension, but skyboxes at popular sports events, maid service, corporate jet service, and even payment for his housing. And if the CEO is let go for non-performance, he may even get a "golden parachute" payment for leaving.

In getting these deals worked out, most CEOs are represented by attorneys.

All unions do is represent workers in wage and benefit negotiations. If it's ok for a corporate executive to have a lawyer represent his economic interests, why is it somehow un American or far leftist for an ordinary worker to have somebody protecting his interests?

Collective bargaining is a right in most of the free world. The countries that suppress it, ironically, are Communist China, Soviet Russia, and other dictatorships.

Oh, and when communism fell, it was not only because of the efforts of Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher, and Pope John Paul II, valuable as their efforts were. But it seems that a little known trade unionist from Poland had something to do with standing up to the Soviets too. Or has everybody forgotten Lech Walensa and his union Solidarisoc (Solidarity, in English)?

And Solidarisoc received a great deal of their funding and support from Lane Kirkland, the former president of the AFL-CIO, and from other unions of the AFL-CIO.

Workers from the shipyards of Gdansk were taken under the wing of the Seafarers Union and other maritime unions throughout the nineties.

So don't believe the ultra rightwing shills for corporate America who try to tell you that unions are somehow ultra leftist or un American. They are distorting history and lying to you.

Just as they lie and spread intolerance and accusations at other groups in our society. They malign working people struggling to make a decent living. they malign gay parents struggling to be active in their children's lives, they malign women, they insult minorities.
Pretty soon there won't be too many groups of actual Americans they do like.

Poli-Carp

I don't drink merlot either, Jaime. Only chianti.

AndreaC

Has anyone here ever been a Scout leader? I have. First, no one asked me if I were gay. I had to sign nothing about that. Second, few other parents would do it.

Finding parents today with time and energy left after job and commute is the main thing limiting more troops. We had waiting lists dozens of kids long.

Not only was it hard to get help, some parents would try to drop their kids off with no supervision before I was there or while I was busy setting up - and these were 5 year old girls! They would pick them up late, too, so they could run errands alone. (I bet they were heteros, too.)

If there were so many volunteers Jeff was not needed, and if he lied, that would be one thing. But no one is suggesting that's the case. I seriously doubt he had to claim anything about his orientation. Congrats to Dion for taking time with those kids when no one else would.

AndreaC

I have a question, as someone pushing an agenda of gay sex and abortion for everyone: what do I do when the gay sex part is so wildly successful that it cancels out the abortion part?
;-)

Let me quote Andrea Chamblee in another post she made. "We have two cats, which are like children in that they tear up the sofa for no good reason, but don't require tuition." Gimme a break Chamblee! Quit trying to come across as this I saved the children as a scout leader because know one else has the time, when you compare them (children)to cats that tear up sofas. Secondly, you don't list NLS as your preferred blog on that new site of yours..so why are you posting here.

AndreaC

Nope. It's no favorite. Too many people post here who are one-note, name-calling, anonymous cowards who can't stick to issues. NLS seems to attract them. Give me a minute to think of an example...

AndreaC

If you follow the links on this issue, you'll find that there is an internal Scout memo that discusses gay scout leaders and a resolution to local chapters, but no rule, and nothing for Dion to sign that required him to be untruthful.

Ben:

Come to a Prince William County Democratic County event or meeting and I will personally kick your homophobic lying ass.

Not Larry Sabato

Very scary coming from someone who won't sign their name.

AT least I don't slander a good a descent man who is trying to be a father for his kid. I have three kids. If they were in scouts, I'd let be delighted if Jeff were the scout master. To call his involement in scouting and his children's lives a source of scandal is something so shameful and sad on your part that I couldn't contain my anger. I expect hateful garbage like this from James Young and BVBL. The fact that you have gone so far down this road with them is truly sad.

C'mon Ben. You know all our IPs, right?

Not Larry Sabato

What road? I never called this a scandal. I just reported it was becoming an issue.

If you look in the comments above, I even said I would have no problem with a gay scout leader with my kids (if I had any), but I would want to know.

OK -- I'm calming down. First, please you should come to Prince William County. Seeing us first hand might give you better insight into our situation -- though it is not always a pretty picture, it is not as bad as it seems. (I have to admit, if you came to our meetings, you'd get some real good posts). Second, at my age, about the only thing I'm going to kick is a bucket. So, sorry about all the angry talk. It was wrong. Third, what I would be worried about is whether somebody is a pedophile -- not whether they are gay or straight. The other thing I'd worry about is whether they are a responsible person. On both these points, Jeff doesn't present any problems on both counts. As for the political implications, I'm hardpressed to see how it will imapact the election. Anybody who has a problem with Jeff has a scout master would probably not vote for him any way. The political issue here has always been his sexual orientation. If being gay disqualifies somebody as a candidate, then we still have a long way to go on human rights in Virginia.

James Young

Anonymousisawoman, it's clear that you object to application of the principle "Turnabout is fair play," since you object to my use of the term "far Left," yet begin by calling me a "farrightwinger." Were you not so clearly on the far Left, and therefore pathologically incredibly earnest, I would conclude that you were merely demonstrating your sense of mirth and irony.

As for your substantive comments, I've got to confess some befuddlement, since you seem to be defensively attacking arguments not made (at least, not by me). To the extent that your argument seems to be directed to the organization with which I am affiliated, you clearly know nothing about Right to Work, but I understand your lengthy post to somehow suggest that it stands for something it does not. To the extent that you do, it is you who is "distorting history and lying to" the reader. Nothing that my organization has ever done, or the National Right to Work Committee has done, opposes "collective" bargaining. What the Foundation does is provide free legal representation to those suffering from forced-unionism abuses. The Committee legislatively opposes special government privileges --- like monopoly bargaining, which is neither required nor necessary to allow a group of workers to choose a representatives, but is the demand that a minority of workers be represented by representatives of those chosen by a majority --- including the patently offensive requirement that employees financially support a monopoly bargaining representative.

And Ben, that last post demonstrates that at least one PWC Democrat has no problem with a candidate who lies and otherwise misrepresents himself. While it comes as no surprise to those of use who live here --- indeed, for the last few years, the most prominent Republican in the County suffered from the same disease --- it demonstrates how far local Dems have fallen that one so enthusiastically embraces such practices.

Not sure there is much of an issue here. It doesn't seem to me Jeff concealed anything -- he's been up front about the fact that he is gay. As for the stuff about the Cub Scounts, if he has been concealing it, how did James Young find out about it. No, he may not have put it on his website, but nobody running for office puts every fact about themselves on their web site. All local Democrats have shown here is that they are not prejudiced. I'm sure Mr. Dion could not be a candidate in the Republican party. That, however, says much more about the Republican party than about Jeff.

Interested Observer

NLS - again I ask "why would you want to know?" What is the relevence of someone's sexuality to being a Cub Scout Leader? You state that you would like to know, but never say why. Do you want to know the sexuality of their baseball or soccer coach? Their Tae Kwan Do instructor? Their Sunday School Teacher or their Fairfax County Public School Teacher?

So, why would you like to know? Like most people, most scout leaders aren't running for public office.

It has been my experience as a Den Leader and now Cubmaster that it is very difficult to find people willing to serve in leadership roles. It is very plausible that Dion stepped into a leadership vacuum such that if he hadn't stepped up, the Pack would be in danger of folding. Perhaps the National HQ of the Scouts would be OK with that, but if YOUR kid wants to be a Scout, you'll probably step up no matter what. Sounds a lot like firing arabic translators that urgently need because we don't like boys kissing (ew!). We see how well that's worked out, huh?

Unless Mr. Young would like to run Pack 1364 himself he should stop throwing stones. I have no idea what his house is made of, but methinks he doth protest too much.

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