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Not A.L. Philpott

I think we all know a certain single-consonant, pseudonymous blogger who will be very happy with this thread!

republitarian

YYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not A.L. Philpott

I think we all know a certain single-consonant, pseudonymous blogger who will be very happy with this thread!

Ward Smythe

That's one.

a

Who, me?

b

or maybe me?

whackette

a, you are not a consonant.

novamiddleman

lol

Is Chichester next? Especially with one of his key allies leaving

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=119317&ran=164072

Hat Tip Bacons Rebellion

a

Alrighty, Ms Whackette, it's called a joke, way to not have a sense of humor

novamiddleman

The key line

"The senator said he will decide next month whether he will seek re-election, a decision that could be influenced by the transportation debate."

Chris

Four years too late. The damage is done.

y

Hmm...all you other letters don't know what its like being me, I live a double life...BOOHOO HOO!!!

Are Republitarian and Cletus Spuckler one in the same? The resemblance is striking.

Granted he did not win it, but didn't Kaine nearly win this seat in 2005?

If that's true, wouldn't the R nominee be a favorite, but not necessarily a strong favorite?

ZB

Mark Herring didn't do terribly in this distict 4 years ago. Kaine came close. I think it's definitely winnable, especially if the GOP nominates a far-right candidate like Statton or Tate.

Not Larry Sabato

ZB, Kilgore got 52% here, so Kaine and Potts combined didn't even win this seat.

This does not suprise me at all. Many in the district believe Potts has given his blessing to his liberal-moderate supporters for governor and senate to switch over to Holtzman. So far Holtzman has play the moderate talk to moderates and conservative talk to conservatives to perfection. No one really knows were she stands. My guess is Holtzman is a little more conservative on the tax issue but probably more in line with Pottsie on abortion and growth type issues. I have heard from people in the district abortion could be the big reason why she did not get the nomination from the conservative caucus in 2003.
If Potts does retire it is 50-50 between Tate and Holtzman with the pro-lifers going to Tate and the Pro growth development type people going to Holtzman. Social conservatives could play the crucial factor to get Tate over the top.I think Social conservatives and pro lifers in the district are scared that Holtzman will be just like Potts in the long run.

Fly on the Wall

The reason that this seat is more competitive now than previously is because Potts had the Assembly draw his district to include more liberal areas and removed a conservative locality (Warren County) after the last census.

This being said, as NLS has pointed out, Kaine did not win this district, and it is still a solidly Republican area.

Jill Holtzman Vogel is running a positive campaign to replace Russ Potts with someone who believes in the sanctity of unborn life and the value of limited government.

As a daughter of the Shenandoah Valley, she has the ability to attract those from a rural tradition in the Valley in Frederick County and Western Loudoun. Also, as an educated, experienced attorney, she will be able to attract the upwardly mobile Northern Virginia Republican/Independent who seems to have wondered from the Republican fold.

Mark Tate is running a smear campaign that is about vindicating his previous loss to Potts and nothing else. He has been unable to file accurate campaign finance reports and seems to be playing something of a shell game with Virginia's campaign finance laws.

The choice in this race is clear.

eileen

Run, Sally Kurtz, run!

eileen

Catoctin's in the 27th I think.?

notfly


"she will be able to attract the upwardly mobile Northern Virginia Republican/Independent who seems to have wondered from the Republican fold"

Yes because she is much more liberal-moderate than Mr. Tate on life issues. Unfortunately for Mrs. Holtzman almost none of this district includes NOVA. Maybe she better run in the 33rd.

Fly, talk about smear campaign. That's all Holtzman has to go on. All she does is talk about Mark's late finance report that he paid his fine for.She had better come up with some issues real quick. Her money will not buy this election. She has her own set of possible ethical issues with Sen. Frist. Just google her name and this will appear.

I have heard Holzman is prolife when she needs to be depending on that crowd. This life issue will be the big reason she loses the nomination this time around as well. Just look back at the 2003 conservative caucus.

Fly on the Wall

A smear campaign is a smear campaign because there is no proof backing up a claim, and that is exactly what is happening with those who claim that Jill is not pro-life. You can't back up that claim and that's all there is to it.

Jill can attract disaffected voters because she is a professional woman AND pro-life. These two things are not incompatible, and it's about time that we had a role model to prove it.

As for finance reports, it would appear that Tate's latest filing is incorrect as well. I would just point 'notfly' to vpap.org. Tate somehow managed to make 114 donations of $100 or less equal to $68,385. If he can prove that this mathematical magic is for real, maybe he should be in elected office.

Conservative Majority

4 years ago Jill Holtzman Vogel didn't win in the conservative caucus because of infighting that ended up annihilating the two best candidates (JHV and Phil Griffin). Mark Tate won by default. I was there and know what happened. All three candidates were very conservative. The least of three (Tate) barely lost to Russ Potts in the primary. My wife and I voted for Tate.

Since that time, Jill Holtzman Vogel has done an excellent job gaining support amongst conservatives in the 27th District as well as some old disaffected Potts supporters. Why you may ask? Because she has charisma, a vast amount of experience, and can raise tons of money. And because she is conservative to the core.

Also, as someone who has known her for years (6 to be exact) I know that she is staunchly pro-life, anti-tax, pro-gun, etc. She just attacked Potts the other day after he proposed raising the gas tax 10 cents a gallon. She believes we need a good transportation bill without raising taxes.

Jill Holtzman Vogel is a superior candidate and is going to be the next State Senator from the 27th District.

Tate is going to go around saying, "She's not conservative enough." That's because he has nothing else to say. After all, that what's always said in contests between Republicans.

Is it me or does Fly on the Wall sound like someone who might work for Holtzman?

Personally, I have no dog in the fight. I would simply note that it would be a little incongruous for someone to be hard to pin down on their positions while also sitting on the VCAP Board of Directors.

Conservative Majority

Can't stand the heat, so you say "Fly on the wall" works for Jill.

Ad hominem arguments are illogical.

Defend your position that Jill is not pro-life! Oh, that's right, you CAN'T.

Fly on the Wall

Fly on the Wall answers to no political candidate. My vested interest is a lifelong distate for Russ Potts.

In 2003, I shared conservative majority's perspective, and I honestly believed that Tate might bring Potts down despite it being a primary. However, he failed, and now, he's trying to redeem his good name by tearing down someone else's. That's what got me into this fight.

Conservative Majority

Mark Tate's finance reports are a travesty and "not fly" just brushes that away like its nothing. Integrity is everything.

On his reports, nothing add up. Ending balances, and not carried over to the new report as beginning balances. He makes loans to himself that don't carry from one report to the next. It's a house of cards like I have never seen before.

Sure, he paid some fines (twice in my understanding). And its going to get a lot more scrutinized as we get closer to the primary.

If the campaign finance reports are too hard for Mark Tate to fill out, how's he gonna get anything done down in Richmond where things are a whole lot more complicated??????

yawn, another upset Holtzman supporter. They have no issues so they just talk about finance reports.

Conservative Majority

Who's the Tate sycophant who won't even leave a name so you can respond?

Conservative Majority

The yawner must be part of Mark Tate's flamboyant male stripper campaign focus group.

PeaceMaker

Hey, ... isn't Jill an election lawyer who represents people who make campaign errors. I think she is. So, ... she could represent Mark.

Can't we all just get along?!?

Jill might need to represent herself. Yeah, shes real ethical.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10507590/

Conservative Majority

Mark Tate better give Jill a call and retain her services since HE is going to need it before this thing is over.

savethebabies

What is Tate running on? Let's see some energy group he started but he is no longer affilitated with. Lying and I do mean lying about Jill's views on the life issue. I would never vote for someone who wasn't prolife. Mark talks a lot but does little. Jill actually worked for the Dept of Energy and I trust her knowledge to lead the way in the fight against the power companies. In 2003 Potts was still saying he was prolife and those who lost rallied around him, so of course Jill would have helped him. It was not until when he ran for Gov he became so proabort. Jill supported Mark with a $10,000 in kind donation and it was her smartness that helped him do as well as he did. Jill has not written one lie about Mark. Mark sends out a letter accusing Jill of not being prolife or of criticizing Potts (mind you he can't even get the date right--he put Feb 2006), and right in Winchester Star last Sat, there is Jill taking Pottsy apart. He accuses her of not mentioning being prolife--duh--she proudly said she was prolife at her announcement. Not one shred of evidence have these deceitful folks come up with to prove Jill is not prolife. I would never vote for Tate. Just wait--Marks deliberate deceit on his campaign finance reports where he conveniently loses thousands of dollars will eventually come out. I used to think Mark was at least a nice guy, but now I think he is really a lousy Christian spreading untrue rumors agaist someone's character. Fight on the issues but Mark is all talk and no action which is why I supported him last time and now am with Jill. Always late, never paid bills and still doesn't and that is a fact!

YouGoogleGirl!

I googled Jill, like suggested.

Seems she and her hubby got somewhere shy of 20 pct of all the money raised for Bill Frist's AIDS charity.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/17/politics/main1134721.shtml


notprolife

If she shoe fits??? Must be hitting a very sore spot. Refuses to criticize Potts until she is forced to by Mr. Tate because she is afraid to loose a good bit of support.

More talk about Mr. Tates campaign finance reports and less about her stance on life issues because it could hurt her with her moderate supporters.
Mrs. Holtzman is moderate to moderates and conservative to conservatives + pro uncontrolled growth+very soft support gotten by making large donations+ possible varying stances on life issue= a big loss in the upcoming primaries.

DontMauckMyValues

http://www.NovaTownHall.com/blog has posted the smoking gun letter mentiond above.

Looks like a good fundraising piece, and pretty conventional politics to me.

Dear ____ and _____,

In a Washington Post story earlier this year, Sen. Russ Potts confirmed he would once again block any attempt to pass pro-life legislation in Richmond. He then followed that with this quote on Jan. 11th, 1007:

"Until the extremist right wing of the Republican Party realizes it's not about God, guns, gays, abortion, and illegal immigration, then you're not going to be able to solve this problem, or education, or health care," Potts said. "They're out of touch."

This latest outrage from Russ Potts demands a response from anyone who seeks to represent us in State Senate.

Those who know me know of my life-long commitment and personal efforts to protecting the unborn. How Russ Potts is abusing his Senate seat is just one more reason why he should be retired at the earliest possible moment. You and I came within an eyelash of doing just that in 2003 and we need to finish the job this year.

But we should also be concerned by the deafening silenece - the lack of any public criticism of Sen. Potts - by others who claim to be pro-life. Especially those who seek political support from those of us who believe in the importance of this issue, but not if it is inconvenient to their personal ambitions.

My opponent in this race, Jill Holtzman-Vogel says she is pro-life, but without any record of active involvement whatsoever, all voters have to rely on are her words. And they are few.

In fact, she has consistently refused to criticize Potts on abortion or other issues. In a (sic) article from the Northern Virginia Daily she said: "I don't think it's about Russ Potts. I think it's about having a fresh person in Richmond."

page two

With the fundraising party she hosted for Potts, a clear picture of Ms. Holtzman-Vogel's lack of commitment on this issue began to emerge.

All too often we have seen politicians who claim to be pro-life, but who disappear from view when it is time to take a stand.

I believe now is the time to take a stand.

I call on any Republican wanting to represent us in Richmond to immediately go on the record and specifically condemn Russ Potts for his obstructionist actions. Anything less than a clear and public condemnation of Potts and his actions falls short of a true commitment to protect our most vulnerable citizens who cannot speak for themselves.

Jointly, with your donations of time and financial resources, we will win the election this spring. I urge you to join me and many others to assure a real change in the 27th District.

Together we can make not just a change in Richmond, but a real difference on this and other critical issues.

Sincerely,

Mark Tate

Truth hurts

Mr. Tate really knows how to hit hard. Nice fundraising piece. The TRUTH HURTS!!!

Chippendale

Re post of 4:19 pm, ...

"The yawner must be part of Mark Tate's flamboyant male stripper campaign focus group."

Flamboyant male stripper focus group?!?! HA!

Who else's mind could come up with something like that other than you, Seth?

Good to see a former unit chairman like you are stirring things up in the blog-o-sphere.

Conservative Majority

Thanks, TJ and Chris, I'll take that as a compliment.

This race couldn't be more cut and dry. Mr. Tate's platform is "I barely lost last time." Wow, that's a standard to rally around. It is time for him to fade away as his 15 minutes are up. He got lucky in 2003 when Mr. Griffin and Mrs. Holtzman-Vogel were so focused on each other they handed him the chance to face Potts. Even with massive support from Griffin, Holtzman-Vogel and conservative groups; he still lost. That didn't bode well for his future viability and yet here is Mr. Tate running again. In all of the posts talking about this race there seem to be a couple of Tate supporters (or staff perhaps) saying the same borderline slanderous negative comments about Holtzman-Vogel. It is still a long way until the June primary and if Tate's people are already resorting to negative tactics it tells you all you need to know about how his supporters/staff feel his chances of winning really are. Lets just hope that Holtzman-Vogel's people realize that arguing over a couple finance reports will not do them the good that a positive approach will and stick to espousing Mrs. Holtzman-Vogel's virtues. Its sad really, a few years ago I could have seen myself supporting Mark Tate as a strong conservative voice. I guess it just took time for me to see him for the punch line he really is.

This race couldn't be more cut and dry. Mr. Tate's platform is "I barely lost last time." Wow, that's a standard to rally around. It is time for him to fade away as his 15 minutes are up. He got lucky in 2003 when Mr. Griffin and Mrs. Holtzman-Vogel were so focused on each other they handed him the chance to face Potts. Even with massive support from Griffin, Holtzman-Vogel and conservative groups; he still lost. That didn't bode well for his future viability and yet here is Mr. Tate running again. In all of the posts talking about this race there seem to be a couple of Tate supporters (or staff perhaps) saying the same borderline slanderous negative comments about Holtzman-Vogel. It is still a long way until the June primary and if Tate's people are already resorting to negative tactics it tells you all you need to know about how his supporters/staff feel his chances of winning really are. Lets just hope that Holtzman-Vogel's people realize that arguing over a couple finance reports will not do them the good that a positive approach will and stick to espousing Mrs. Holtzman-Vogel's virtues. Its sad really, a few years ago I could have seen myself supporting Mark Tate as a strong conservative voice. I guess it just took time for me to see him for the punch line he really is.

savethebabies

Gee, I hate to burst your bubble, Jill's fundraising for Potts, which she has also done for Allen, Bolling, Kilgore, Athey, Sherwood, etc.was during the 2003 election when Potts was prolife and profamily. Many folks voted for him based on that fact. Those who know Mark know his lifelong committment to not paying his bills, stiffing everyone, making pledges to various org to look important and then no money to follow it up and on it goes. Vice Mayor of Middleburg makes me really laugh--VM does nothing and what is there like 800 people--what a joke. At least Jill has never lost an election to Peter Rabbit. Yes, Mark actually lost the chairmanship of the Loudon Rep Comm to Peter Rabbit cause so many conservatives knew he was a blowhard and a former liberal. Now maybe you want to see where Mark's donations came from--how about $10,000 froma big Kaine supporter. Oh this is going to be fun! Mark wants to play dirty, well it will all come out in the wash.

At least Mr. Tate has a platform. NO one expected anyone to come close to beating Potts in 03 as he still claimed a conservative mantle. No one ever heard Mrs. Holtzman criticize Pott's even back then. Did she say she wanted to run just becaue Pott's had been in too long?

I do give Mrs. Holtzman some credit now that she appears to be critical of Pott's but I think this is a reaction to Mr. Tate's fundraising letters. I see Mrs. Holtzman has attempted to latch on to the Dominion thing AFTER Mr. Tate founded a group to stop the lines. THis is find of funny!!

Mrs. Holtzman was fundraising for herself when she should have been suporting Allen, Wolf, Kilgore, BOlling and ect..

This is the total complete truth.

How many funraisers has she held when those currently running for office needed help? She even had her campaign manager at events looking for supporters and soliciting help for the Holtzman campaign when Allen really needed the help. Talk about opportunism!!

Look at all the big lobbyist and Democrats who have given to Mrs. Holtzman literally thousands and thousands of dollars. Her campaign is funded by out of state lobbyists and a rich friends and family members.
Those delegates who support her have mysteriously recieved literally thousands of dollars from Mrs. Holtzman. I am not saying she is attempting to buy support but it certainly does not look good. So much for running on your record.

Rtwng Extrmst

I'll believe Russ Potts is retiring when the election is over and he is not in the Senate.

I don't know Mr. Tate nor Mrs Holtzman-Vogel well yet, but being in their District, I will by the primary. I think any true conservative would have to be careful in how they proceed here. Why you ask? Because Pottsie will not stand for a true conservative to take his seat. I believe if we nominate a conservative that he doesn't at least believe is in his pocket, he will either run as a Democrat or an Independent to keep the seat out of conservative hands. Much like he did in running for Governor.

t

t is giddy with delight at this magnificent news.

Potts is the Grim Reaper on the Health Committee.
It takes a SICK mind to deny a baby painkiller when they will be aborted. Potts is a sick, twisted, pathetic old man who should have stepped down long ago. Now it is time to support a TRUE pro-life Statesman in Tate.

Jill is a poor man's Potts.

t

t endorses Tate and will fight with ALL my might to get this great man the nomination.

t SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAKS

Potts has outlasted Allen, Kilgore, Kate, and all haters.

He wins if he runs!

NoVAConservative

Which is all the more reason why Tate is going lose. Badly.

I agree with "t" on the life issue. He (or she, I don't know) would probably get along great. I've fought Planned Parenthood in the trenches, I've personally counseled women walking into an abortion clinic to not take their babies.

But on this Senate race, "t" has been fed a pack of lies, and hopefully he'll eventually figure it out. It is a prolifer's obligation to support a candidate that is truly prolife. It is ALSO our obligation to support one that can WIN and do a good job. That's the key.

A few people in blogs have said Jill isn't really prolife. They've got nothing to back this up. Its a smear campaign. Anybody that knows Jill knows she is as prolife as they come and has been all her life. In fact, I'm quite sure the very suggestion she's not would totally offend her. But unlike Tate, she's not going to screw up the election. She's not going to break the law with her campaign, and she has her act together on a LOT of different issues. People will respect her and listen to her in Richmond. That's just not true for Mark Tate. He's not a statesman--he can barely put a decent speech together.

No, I'm confident that the day will come that "t"--and others like him--see for themselves that Jill is a far better candidate, totally solid on all the important issues, and will be a tour de force in Richmond. She'll do a lot more good for the unborn babies that Mark Tate every will.

t is the man

Yes, Mrs. Holtzman is solid on all the issues for both moderates and conservatives depending on the crowd. That's the problem. How in the world can she have support from some of the most LIBERAL republicans and yet claim to be a conservative.(Just look at her finances available from VPAP.org) She just started to criticize Potts this week and refused the last couple of weeks in our local papers.

Why? Becaues Mr. Tate called her out on the issue.

I don't doubt Mrs. Holtzman "claims" to be prolife now but what about in 03 conservative caucus? She had the most money then but they failed to pick her. I wonder why?

Yes, Holtzman is the candidate of choice for lobbyists and special interest pro growth groups.

No,Mr.Tate is not a "professional" politician and that is why he is so well liked by the prolife community and the grassroots republicans.

NoVAConservative

Well here we go again.

First of all, the most prominent liberal Republican supporting anybody in this race is John Warner. When he's not busy trying to send the world a message that he doesn't believe in General Petreus and the troops in Iraq, he's supporitng Mark Tate. This is the most powerful politician in Virginia we are talking about--pro abortion, pro-tax, and anti-war.

Tate didn't call her out on anything--his little letter came out after she was quoted in the Star criticizing Potts. And its not like it was the first time. You yourself acknowledge she attempt to run against Potts in 2003. You think that was an act of kindess? She and Phil Griffin split the vote in that caucus, that's why she didn't win. All three candidates were conservative.

If you can find one person who has ever heard Jill say anything other than she was prolife, I'd like to here it. Otherwise, quite lying. Yes, lying. That's what you are doing. I keep hearing about these "crowds." What "crowds?" Is there some kind of secret cabal or moderate and then conservative Republicans candidates go dancing in between?

Mark Tate had his chance. He blew it. He wants another one, fine. But he's on notice he'll have to earn it. And a little bit of slander in a letter and a message board isn't going to do it. There's a real campaign going on out there, with organization, tons of grassroots support, strong fundraising and real commitments from activists. And its not Mark Tate's. Its Jill Holtzman Vogel's.

notamoderatorliberalholtzmansupporter

Nova conservative,

At least Warner is a Republican supporting Tate. Not a rich lobbyist or democrat

Many of Pott's supporters for his INDEPENDENT RUN for governor are supporting MRs. Holtzman. This is the truth and I am sure it is making her soft supporters mad.

I must be touching on a real sore spot about the pro life issue. Just look back at the 2003 conservative caucus. The grassroots people know who the REAL prolife candidate is in this race.

Yes, there are plenty of grassroots conservatives out there and guess what, they are supporting Mr. Tate, he has not bought his support with large donations. He has won them with his strong pro life stance and steady conservatsism.

Mrs. Holtzman finally decided to criticize POtt's when Tate called her out on it and now her supporters are upset. She had plenty of chances over the past several weeks but failed. I don't know if you are from the district but read the local papers for yourself. She had at least 2 chances to criticize but declined to comment. Probably to satisfy her liberal-moderate Pott's supporter friends in Winchester-Frederick.

ultraconservative

Obviously you didn't read the article in the Star last Sat before goofball sent out his fundraising letter dated Feb. 2006--he can't even proofread. Where are these moderate groups that Jill goes to speak? You aren't mentioning the liberal woman who gave Mark $10,000 as quid pro quo--look at the records and you will find she donated a bundle to Kaine. Talk about liberal support along with Mr. chicken Warner--RINO. So don't give us that crap Jill has liberal support. The big laugh is Mark quit the energy committee he started to campaign (short lived to get credit where none is deserved). What a load of baloney--the guy can't think and chew gum at the same time. Heck, Jill has a thriving law practice for nonprofits, a family, volunteer work and yet she didn't have to quit anything to run for senate. Guess who has done all the legal work for that energy comm? Yup Jill who found time to help out. Mark can't even file campaign reports. Just ignores them until he is caught. He knows he needed to do that but it was Jill who got him through 2003. So I am supposed to vote for someone who deliberately breaks the law and totally ignores campaign finance reports? You want that moron representing us in the Senate. No way. Go prolifer Jill.

For info on Holtzman's ethics please read:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10507590/

Yeah, she like to take a nice salery from non profits at best and an investigation at worst, at least according to the AP.

Whine, Whine, Whine, thats all the Holtzan folks do. They have no issue other than her money so they attempt to make a big deal about fiance reports.


Yes, the Star article the week she annonnced REFUSED to criticize Pott's at least twice in several different papers. Mr. Tate people forced her hand. She did not criticize Pott's until Tate's people started to make a big deal over it.

I wonder what issue Holtzman will attempt next.

First, she attempted to make the uncontrolled growth people happy in 2002 and 2003. .

Second, she attemptd to make the anti tax people happy with her big donations and support of VCAP.

Third, she has attempted to make the pro life people happy. This is not working as well.

Now, after Mr. Tate started the anti-Dominion group she is attempting to latch onto this.

I wonder what the next flavor (I mean issue) of the week will be.

MBConservative

NoVAConservative,

"People will respect her and listen to her in Richmond. That's just not true for Mark Tate. He's not a statesman--he can barely put a decent speech together." The last time I checked, the top quality people look for in a leader was NOT eloquent speech making. As President Bush said in 2004 "the people want a consistent, steady, principled leader". John Kerry had better public speaking skills than George Bush, and yet the American people chose not to elect Senator Kerry to lead our nation. Mark Tate has been consistent and steady in his stand on conservative beliefs. He also maintains his conservative and christian principles. He may not express his views in the same form as Jill Vogel, but his constituents know what he believes. They can also be sure his beliefs are not malleable. He is not going to change to comply with lobbyist and liberals in Richmond.
Jill Vogel is an amazing woman and candidate. She is well educated and well qualified for the position. She may even be over qualified. She has excellent apeaking skills, as would be expected of a high quality lawyer. What she lacks is consistency. Is she for or against Potts? If she is against, is she willing or unwilling to publicly admonish him? As for principles, I'm sure she has them, but what are they? I do not just mean prolife or not. What does she stand for on anything? Jill Vogel is a very bright woman and has run a good campaign to this point. Mark Tate has also held his own against her, and for this alone I would be very cautious in my attack on Mr.Tate's intellegence. You may not agree with him, but your attempt to call him stupid reflects poorly on your own intellegence.

NoVAConservative

MB, I tried to post a response to you but this site kept dying on me before it would post. Now I lost it. I'll respond later. I appreciate that you've at least approached this with your head out of the gutter.

Nova conservative has been brainwashed by the Holtzman campaign to believe everything they say.

You might want to ask NOVA conservative if one of Pott's biggest supporters for Governor in 05 in the northern Valley hosted a fundraiser for her?????

Yes, I am sure Jill is prolife now that she needs to be???? What about that conservative caucus in 03????????? Ouch.

Mrs. Holtzman only criticized Pott's last week because she might have been getting flack from her more conservative supporters since Mr. Tate called her out on the issue. Now she risks losing her big moderate-liberal donors. What a quandry!!!

ultraconservative

You know Jill nor Mark has gone around for the last 4 years criticizing Potts. Until Potts did a switcheroo in 2005 Republicans still basically supported him. When he won the Republican nomination, Jill supported him and did a fundraiser. When she was woman enough to drop out of the primary race in 2003 mainly because she did not want a bloodbath, she helped Mark Tate and gave $10,000 worth of inkind donations and it was a hell of a lot of research on Potts who she has no use for or she wouldn't have run in 2003so Mark could go after him. You just do not know what you are talking about or do not listen. When you are not a candidate, which Jill wasn't until recently and unlike Mark has not announced like three times already, the media does not care what you have to say so how she is supposed to criticizing Potts in papers or anywhere else I don't know. I and hundreds of others have heard her publicly take him apart at various meetings, etc. esp. about his 180 on prolife. Liberal donors, are you kidding--Sheila Johnson owner of Black Entertainment TV which is putrid, gave more to Tim Kaine than any other person--gee, she helped defeat Kilgore and yet Mark takes $10,000 from a mega liberal because he did the underhanded quid pro quo by giving her what she needed in Middleburg for her resort and she thanked him. That definitely does not pass the sniff test. Liberal donors ding dong this is despicable. She works against Republicans and big, big liberal and all these so called prolifers haven't got a problem with Mark taking blood money because the Democrat Party is the Party of Death. So T and the rest of you purists, you are full of it. You don't mind backing a guy who blatantly lies on his campaign finance reports either. You are forgetting many many good Republicans and conservative ones who were with Potts in 2003 feel duped and lied to and are out to get Potts so pointing fingers is stupid and ignorant. Why shouldn't a former Potts supporter fundraise for Jill once Potts tried to destroy the Republican Party? Good for them for waking up to what that guy is all about. You are a joke when Mark takes money from someone who gave Kaine over $400,000--the largest donation given. Shame on Mark Tate for accepting such tainted money and making deals with this woman.

Some of Mrs. Holtzman's supporters are big lobbyists directly tied to democrats. This does not even include those who supported Pott's INDEPENDENT campaign for governor less than two years ago and are now big Holzman supporters. Makes you wonder!!!!

The media might not care about criticizing Pott's in the paper but the media does not vote in the primary either. Once again Mr. Tate forced Mrs. Holzman to make a statement criticizing Pott's because she had failed to do so on multiple occasions over the past several weeks.

Now the grassroots must be really confused? First Mrs. Holtzman declines to comment multiple times about Pott's when given the chance to criticize him and NOW we are made to think she doe not like his ideas??? I think we can thank Mr. Tate for this.


"she helped defeat Kilgore"

How??? While she was fundraising for herself during this time..... I even heard she was not the biggest Kilgore fan.

ultraconservative

Get a grip. You know how really stupid you sound? Um hate to break it to you but Jill was running against Potts back in 2003. For someone you accuse of beinig so enamored of Potts, why did she spend thousandsof dollars getting all the material on him and then out of the goodness of her heart and good sportsmanship, give it all to Mark to help him beat Potts? So Mark doesn't run on the issues against Jill the person who helped him in his last campaign,and without whose help he would have really lost bigger, instead he starts a smear campaign about her prolife credentials. So shut up about Potts and not criticizing.
No she was not fundraising for herself--she had fundraisers for Kilgore and had people at her office doing phone banking for Kilgore and Allen and Wolf. She did fundraising for Bolling and for those candidates raised a ton of money. Her campaign was put on hold until after the election. Sending out a newsletter is not campaigning. Mark bs his way through and does nothing except go to meetings and talks about how much he does. Liberal donors, please--you name me one liberal donor who has given Jill $10,000, esp one who gave over $400,000 to Kaine to defeat the candidate Mark supposedly was supporting. Come off it--Mark would sell himself to anyone. I did some checking after I read on the some blog about Mark losing chairman of Loudon comm to Peter Rabbit and was told by a number of people who were involved that before Mark got into politics, he hung with libs in Middleburg and conservatives did not want him or trust him so voted for Peter Rabbit. That is soooooo funny--what a loser!

NoVAConservative

I'm just finding tremendous irony in the people who are saying that Jill has gotten money from folks that supported Potts when he ran for Governor.

Simple question--isn't it even worse to have supported Tim Kaine???

How would you feel about supporting a candidate who had given many thousands of dollars to Tim Kaine?

Just curious. Anybody man enough to answer?

NoVAConservative

I'm just finding tremendous irony in the people who are saying that Jill has gotten money from folks that supported Potts when he ran for Governor.

Simple question--isn't it even worse to have supported Tim Kaine???

How would you feel about supporting a candidate who had received money from somebody who has given many thousands of dollars to Tim Kaine? Or to Jim Webb?

Just curious. Anybody man enough to answer?

NoVAConservative

Sorry for the double post--I wasn't finished the first time and accidentally hit "Post" instead of Preview.

"No she was not fundraising for herself" during past campaigns.
Yes, she was.


She had many fundraisers over the past several years, taking crucial money from Sen. Allen, Kilgore, and those who really needed it.

How about those ethics problems the AP wrote about with Frist???? I am very concerned about this.


Answer my questions ultra conservative and NOVaconervative and I will answer yours

Did one of Pott's big supporters for governor in the northern valley (winchester area) host a fundraiser for Holtzman???? I just want to clear this up. I was concerned and heard rumors of this.

If you were you all I would not take a chance on the life issue and vote for Mr. Tate since we are certain he is pro life. Mrs. Holtzman may indeed by prolife now but when you attempt to run with the liberal-moderate Potts section of the party don't expect to have the conservatives come back so easily.

Bottom Line: Mr. Tate actually forced Mrs. Holtzman to come out against Potts after multiple attempts by the local media to do so. I don't think a 100% conservative would decline to comments on multiple occasioins to local newspapers when given the chance to criticize Pottsie.

not Rick Gorka

Some Loudoun County committee members with a long memory will remember a time when Mark Tate was not so conservative. In fact, they may remember a time when he was pro-abortion. Ask around, the truth will come out. Tate only changed to many of his currently held conservative views after he did not win an election as chairman in Loudoun. He realized that you couldn't get anywhere politically if you weren't conservative.

That's why I am supporting Jill Holtzman Vogel. She is a true conservative that didn't just change because it was politically expedient. She's a conservative and always has been.

not vcap

"She is a true conservative that didn't just change because it was politically expedient"

HA Ha,That has to be the funniest statement heard yet from the moderate liberal Holtzman crowd.

No one really knows were she stood until Mr. Tate called her out about not criticizing Sen. Potts. She had several chances to do this in the local papers over the past several months and failed miserably.

Now, no one really knows were she stands since she is apparently acting critical towards Potts.

I just know it does not look too good when your biggest political supporters just happen to have recieved thousands in donations from your family. I am not sure you can call this "buying" support but it certainly does not look good. I wonder if those same folks would have supported Mrs. Holzman if you take away the cash??????????????
Just a few points to ponder.

AlexVogelsFirstWife

Ultraconservative, ... you know just way way too much. It is kinda weird.

It is almost like Mark and Jill went to the prom and the date went bad while you sat in the back seat of the car, ... and now feel like you have to chose sides about who is cool and who isn't.

You are going over details that boggle the mind - like you actually know the content of Jill's $10,000 in-kind contribution to Mark?

And what and how Jill advised Mark in 2003.

You actually know Jill law clients?

You actually know which phones banks Jill had in her office.

Are you stalking her?

You actually said you "talked to people" who said Mark may have hung out with libs before he got into politics?

You call Black Entertainment Television putrid, ... I gotta tell you I like SoulTrain and That's My Momma!

These are lunatic rantings.

And they are so angry as to be unhealthy.

I am worried about your blood pressure.

ultraconservative

You guys never want facts to get in the way of your smearing. Guess what? Before I open my mouth about anyone, I do my research thoroughly. I also read campaign finance reports and saw Sheila Johnson's name and did a little digging, doesn't require too many brains, but I guess if you don't have any or can't do anything but smear, you don't understand someone actually finding out facts before making accusations. I think many traditional folks would find BET pretty awful. I notice you are trying to smear me and not answering the questions as to why Mark would take such tainted money from Sheila Johnson who gave over $400,000 to Kaine to defeat Mark's candidate Jerry Kilgore? We know he helped her get her resort going so it is quid pro quo. I mean a state senate race doesn't usually get those donations unless it is by family or very close friend. So by attacking me with your stupid comments and I do mean stupid comments, you are showing that you know nothing about your candidate. The Kilgore Bolling campaign was grateful to Jill to allow use of phones for phonebanking. I did my research before choosing which candidate would get my vote. Again, what iI have seen on blogs by Mark's people is distasteful. I am sorry you do not like the truth but that is what I am telling and have facts to back me up. Since prolife issues are of paramount concern to me, you can damn well be sure that Jill is prolife and has always been prolife cause she could be right on everything else and I would not vote for her. Try actually sorting thru Tate's finance report--a real eye opener!

not vcap

Ultraconservative

whine,whine,whine about finance reports ultra conservative. That's all you have done on here. Cry,Cry,Cry.


You have not answered any questions?????? I am still not satisfied.

Did one of Sen. Potts major contributors for governor HOST a fundraiser for her or not????

I think you will eventually be VERY suprised if you are a legitimate prolife supporter and keep an OPEN mind about the prolife issue as the campaign wears on.

ultraconservative

Sheila Johnson and her $10,000 donation--it will not go away--I won't let and neither will any real Republican or prolifer. You would be surprised all that I know. I am not responding your moronic comments--you sound like a child with your whine, whine whine silliness. Obviously Mark is not a real prolifer or he would not be accepting these donations from a a real liberal who got Kaine in office against the Republican. Joe May supports Tate--and he is criticizing Jill what a laugh. You are right though, the campaign has just begun and this is going to be fun.

not vcap

OOh, now your calling me names. I guess you have no ground to stand on so the whining and crying continues indefinitely. Give it up and going the winning real pro life team.

No one knows were Holtzman stands on any issue until Tate calls her out for not criticizing Potts on either abortion or taxation.
We only find out when Mr. Tate forces her to criticize Pott's.
Once again, Did Pott's major supporter for governor HOST a fundraiser for JIll??????

Jill Holtzman is just like McCain, Romney and company. They all change their views to suit the political climate.

With regards to the prolife question, How about that conservative caucus in 03???????

MBConservative

Ultraconservative,
"You guys never want facts to get in the way of your smearing." Your statement inspired me to look up a few facts. Thanks for opening my eyes to the truth.
Henry C. Clark donated $120 to Jill Vogel. He also donated $500 to Tim Kaine,$500 to Democrat Lowell Fulk,$300 to Democrat Alan Diamonstein, and $1,000 to Mark Warner. GF Development LLC donated $300 to Jill Vogel, $10,000 to Tim Kaine, and $200 to Democrat Robert Hull. Wiley,Rein and Fielding donated $1750 to Jill Vogel and $500 to Tim Kaine.
You mentioned that Mr.Tate was not prolife because he accepted a donation from one Kaine supporter. What does that make your candidate since she accepted donations from at least three Kaine supporters? Your argument hasn't convinced me. If anything it makes me question the validity of any of your other statements.

Ultra conservative and NovaConservaitve, I am sure you will read this.

You both have been talking about how Jill has criticized Sen. Potts before Tate ever "called her out about her failure to ever criticize her"


That is definitely misleading.

Mr. Tate's funraising letter (per novatownhall) is dated Feb. 7 and Mrs. Holzman responded to the papers on Feb. 10. (Per VCAP's website)

Talk about passing on lies and bad info. Thanks Holtzman supporters. Mrs. Holtzman surely got wind that Mr. Tate called her out on her constant refusals to criticize Sen. Potts on ANYTHING and only then she wrote a fancy complaint to the newspapers. Ultra conservative you want to talk about campaign incompetance, This really beats the cake.

Now Back to our reguarly scheduled programming

Ultra conservative and NovaConservaitve, I am sure you will read this.

You both have been talking about how Jill has criticized Sen. Potts before Tate ever "called her out about her failure to ever criticize her"


That is definitely misleading.

Mr. Tate's funraising letter (per novatownhall) is dated Feb. 7 and Mrs. Holzman responded to the papers on Feb. 10. (Per VCAP's website)

Talk about passing on lies and bad info. Thanks Holtzman supporters. Mrs. Holtzman surely got wind that Mr. Tate called her out on her constant refusals to criticize Sen. Potts on ANYTHING and only then she wrote a fancy complaint to the newspapers. Ultra conservative you want to talk about campaign incompetance, This really beats the cake.

Now Back to our reguarly scheduled programming

Public Health Official

UltraConservative, ...

Take and aspirin, and take 10 deep breaths into a brown paper bag.

You are not gonna make it through the whole campaign unless you pace yourself.

NoVAConservative

So, let me see if I have this down:

It is not ok for Jill to have accepted money from somebody who support Potts when he ran for Governor.

It IS ok for Mark Tate to accept a large donation ($10,000) from somebody who supported Tim Kaine for Governor, and Jim Webb for Senate--and in fact was a major donor for both.

Does that about sum it up?

Keep spinning, Taters. Sooner or later you'll fall down from getting so dizzy.

NOVAConservative,

Are you admitting that a Pott's supporter for governor hosted a fundraiser for Mrs. Holtzman??? Just curious.

MBConservative

NOVAConservative,
Are you saying that it is ethical to accept donations from Democratic supporters as long as the donations are small? If anything, it just shows how little it takes for Jill Vogel to compromise her values. I'm not saying it was right for Mark Tate to have accepted a donation from a Democratic supporter, but if you are going to attack him for his ethics, you can expect that others are going to hold Jill Vogel to the same standards.

NoVAConservative

MB--

Here's the key thing--I'm not the one raising the issue of who is getting money. I wasn't attacking Mark Tate for anything. But from day one, literally one of the top 2 or 3 things I've heard from Tate supporters against Jill is that she got money from somebody who apparently supported Potts for Governor. I personally have not verified this fact, but lets assume for the sake of discussion its true--I have no reason to think its not.

So apparently it is a great sin for her to have done that, according to these people. But if you TRULY believe that, how can you support Mark Tate? He got $10,000--thats a LOT of money--from somebody who not only supported Tim Kaine and Jim Webb, but also is considered a major donor to liberal causes and the Democratic Party. I do believe Shiela Johnson has even donated money explicitly to pro-abortion organizations!

So how dare a Tate supporter criticize Jill for her donors, when Tate's getting money from a big Dem that played a big part in denying George Allen another term! That is the very definition of hypocrisy.

There are plenty of things I'd prefer to "attack" Mark Tate about--again, this campaign is pretty early and there are a lot of things to discuss. But I'm not going to sit her and let these hypocrites--and perhaps you are NOT among them, because I detect at least a more reasonable tone from your posts--attack Jill for her donors when they are supporting a candidate who has gotten money from a truly destructive force in VA Conservative politics Shiela Johnson. That's just not right.

Need to Know

Nova conservative,

Did a major Russ Potts supporter host a fundraiser for Jill Holtzman??? Readers have asked this question and yet to recieve an answer.

Need to Know

From what I have heard. At least Tate actually worked and volunteered for Allen, Wolf, and Kilgore and did not actively fundraise with Potts supporters during the past two cycles. I have heard Holtzman sent her paid campaign manager to those events last fall to recruit people for her upcoming campaign. Wow!

MBConservative

NOVAConservative,
I am in fact NOT a Tate supporter. I have not made a decision at all in this primary. I appreciate that you can at least realize that Jill Vogel has her faults. My point was not that Jill Vogel was a bad person because of the donations she accepted. I was just trying to point out that regardless of the amount of money, both candidates have accepted money from questionable sources. If anything, I am just trying to make the argument less hypocritical.

NoVAConservative

MB--
I understand and appreciate that. But please understand that this line of attack is coming from the Tate side, not the Holtzman Vogel side.

Then you get comments like "Need to Know," which is just plain false. MB, noticed they are always prefaced by "I have heard" or "I have been told" or something like that. Its a nice way to spread a false rumor and not actually be accountable for it.

A shame. But these Tate folks should know that there are plenty of people like me that aren't going to let allegations like that just sit out there.

Above all, I believe in fighting fair, and that's not what is happening right now on the blogs. But out in the real world, Jill's campaign is getting great feedback and has a lot of momentum. Nobody will be handed anything, she has to prove that she's the best candidate.

need to know

Nova Conservative,

I assume you are totally avoiding two major questions that need to be asked

1. Did Mrs. Holtzman have a major Potts for Governor supporter host a big fundraiser???

2. Wasn't Holtzman's paid campaign manager recruiting supporters last fall in the elections for Allen?????

You can play dodgeball with my questions all night but these are important questions for the citizens to know the correct answer. I would like to confirm the answers as well.

NoVAConservative

No, actually I already addressed them. But since you insist:

1. As I said, I have no idea. I have no reason to doubt you if you say its true. As I was saying, I consider it far worse to accept $10,000 from somebody who was instrumental in both Tim Kaine and Jim Webb winning their races. Nobody has challenged the fact that Mark Tate did accept money from that donor.

2. Was she recruiting supporters for Allen? Yes. For Holtzman-Vogel, no, not during campaign season. Jill's campaign manager was "lent" to the coordinated GOP efforts during the last few months of the campaign and did everything she could to help. Some of the people she worked with, I'm sure, are not supporting Jill, some are. If you were to ask the people involved in those campaigns, including the Kilgore campaign, they will tell you that Lisa Mauck was a star and did everything possible to help the cause. Similarily, if you were to ask Senator Allen whether Jill Holtzman Vogel was helpful to him, the answer would be an unqualified yes. Not only did the Vogel's help financially (which obviously can be traced and well documented), but Jill was a jack of all trades for these campaigns, helping with everything from phone banking to grassroots recruitment to counsel.

I have no idea what Mark Tate did or didn't do. I'm not going to start alledging things I don't know to be true. I'll leave that to his supporters.

need to know

Thank you very much, NOVA conservative. At least your were honest about question number one although I would argue it would be FAR worse to host a fundraiser and bring all your moderate-liberal Republican friends than take money from 1 person. I just don't think it looks right to be using a host who worked against our Republican candidate a little over a year ago. Thats my opinion and I guess its okay for good Republicans to disagree on this issue.

2. On question number 2. Fair enough. Thanks for being upfront. If the manager did indeed take a leave of absence to work on the campaigns and not recruit holtzman volunteers I guess that would be okay. I still think it would be a major conflict of interest to be working for one campaign 1 cycle away while being so-called "loaned" to the Allen campaign if there was not leave of absence. If the campaign manager was NOT recruiting volunteers I don't see it as a problem but why did the manager not go to work with the Allen campaign directly? All of this could have been avoided by the Holzman campaign by bringing on staff after the 06 elections or not having a paid staffer during an off season election. This lead to plenty of confusion.

Thank you for answering a few of my questions and being upfront and I must say I was pleased to see the prolife piece put out by Holtzman even if it was a bit late. Its good to see she is taking a strong stance on life right now. Also I never realized Holtzman served in grassroots recuitment and as "council" to these campaigns. Thats good to hear.

CuriousGeorge

3 Questions promoted from the back and forth above between NoVaConservative and NeedToKnow, ...

1) Why did Jill Holtzman Vogel, who is running in 2007, even have a campaign manager in 2006 to lend to the Allen campaign?

2) Did said campaign manager have access to Allen's lists and such?

3) Does Jill Holtzman Vogel actually hyphenate her last name, or is hse more like Hillary Rodham Clinton in adding her maiden name?


1. Good Question.

2. I have heard yes from several sources-maybe someone else can help here or has heard different.

3. not that i am aware

NoVAConservative

Jill had a campaign organization ramped up and ready to go because she believed that Russ Potts would either retire altogether or join the Kaine Administration in some capacity. Mark Tate thought the same thing and took steps of his now. Jill secured a campaign manager and need to have some kind of campaign in place and ready to go at the drop of the hat, since if Potts had left, it would have been a very short campaign.

As it happened, the Potts situation dragged out and eventually he went nowhere. So that left everybody in limbo. As far as I know, Jill's campaign (again, and Mark's) did some light infrastructure work, little fundraising (and that's BOTH of them by the way), etc, but once summer gave way to fall, Jill's campaign manager went over to help the coordinated effort and was involved in a lot of things that went on in the area.

I have no idea what lists she may have had access to, but its a mute point since part of the Holtzman Vogel campaign's work that was done over the summer was to acquire and build their own lists. Those were already established and even being used.

Jill does not hyphenate her last name. She's just using her maiden name in the middle, and her married name last. As you know, the Holtzman's are a great Virginia family and there's no reason to hide that.

NoVAConservative

Wow there are some silly typos in there---"mute" point instead of "moot," "now" instead of "own." Sorry. Hopefully that's legibile anyway. Time for bed.

"I have no idea what lists she may have had access to, but its a mute point since part of the Holtzman Vogel campaign's work that was done over the summer was to acquire and build their own lists"

I relatively certain the Holtzman campaign manager was in charge of all the RPV lists for the 10thdistrict. Whether the manager decided to use them for the Holzman campaign is guess is an ethical choice only the campaign could make. We should all assume the manager did NOT use the lists unless it could be proven otherwise.

This is is biggest reason Holtzman probably should not have had a "paid" campaign manager to loan to the coordinated efforts. I agree with NovaConservative that Holtzman probably did not need any other names to add but it just does not pass the "smell test" to have a paid campaign manager working for federal campaigns. If the manager wanted to work with Allen, the manager shoudl have taken a full leave of absence.

CuriousGeorge

NoVaCon -

You are a machine. Jill should dump her campaign mgr and hire you.

NoVAConservative

Ha...well from what I understand, Jill's campaign manager is pretty darn good.

To the poster above--it wasn't so much that the campaign manager wanted to work with Allen, it was that THEY wanted her.

Now you (or whoever since none of the, shall we say, detractors every put their screen names) seem to be complaining because she WAS helping the other campaigns. Before it was because she WASN'T helping the other campaigns. Which is it?

And, more importantly, what does any of this have to do with who should replace Russ Potts?

needtoknow

I agree with Curiousgeorge, although I completely disagree with who should represent the Republican party in the 27th Novaconservative should definitely join the Holtzman Vogel campaign as at least senior level staff. Nova has the Holtzman campaign talking points down perfect. If nova did join,the campaign would essentially be unstoppable.

You hacks need to get a life

Don't you people have lives? You all sound like a bunch of hacks in your own little bubble. I will say a few things, though, I can't believe Tate claims to be a true conservative while quoting from CBS and NBC ... but then again what do you expect from his campaign wannabe freaks who spend all their time on blogs. Also, last time I checked violating campaign finance laws was no laughing matter. In fact correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe felony penalties are quite serious ... unless of course you're a Democrat like "Cold Cash" Jefferson, but then I guess Tate wouldn't have all of the financial problems he has if he was on the take. Although, 10k from Sheila Johnson and some weirdo out of San Fran would speak volumes about him. I would dare say that if Hilary stroked Jill a check for 10k she'd turn it down. I call on Tater Tot to return all of his money from his liberal supporters (that is unless those reports aren't accurate). Felonies, my friends, are not small issues AT ALL! If you think they are then why don't you head on down to New Orleans and work on the Dem campaigns down there and leave the law abiding citizens of Virginia alone. To sum up Tater Tot needs to focus on the mac and cheese in his restaurant and quit using this campaign to fund his lively lifestyle in San Fran.

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