TRANSPORTATION DEAD?- UPDATED

Rumors that Chichester, Potts and Hawkins are joining the 5 Democrats on Senate Finance to kill the Transportation Plan!!!!

WITH SENATE FINANCE AT 10 REPUBLICANS AND 5 DEMOCRATS- THE BILL WOULD BE ONE VOTE SHORT!!!

BUT CAN THESE THREE REPUBLICANS COUNT ON BENNEDICT LAMBERT???

VOTE EXPECTED SOON.

DEVELOPING...

UPDATE:  Jeff Schapiro is sitting on the floor, and one source tells me he may be a little gassy today.

UPDATE #2-  JOHN WATKINS IS ALSO VOTING NO.  THE PLAN IS ALMOST TOTALLY DEAD NOW.

UPDATE #3-  Hawkins is squishy.

UPDATE #4-  It's officially a circus!  Gerry Connolly is in the house, in the press section.  LOL!!!!!

UPDATE #5-  Russ Potts: "We are in touch with the people. We represent the people, we know the pulse of the people.". Someone please tell him he got 2% of the vote for Governor!!!!

UPDATE #6-  Compromise Plan dies 11-4.

UPDATE #7-  Potts Plan to Raise Gas Tax by 5 percent passes 9-6.

Comments

[hrconservative]

Let us know what happened

[not gretchen bulova]

It would be great for Dems if this died in Transportation.

First, it's a bad bill.

Second, Republicans will look bad in November.

If Chichester kills this Bill I can guarantee you he will go down in defeat this spring in a primary!

[Matt]

Hmm...i hope they kill it, I'm sick of the dumb republcians playing move the debt to a different department. They will fund either transportation but let education go down, or vice versa.

[Carrington]

Once again, chi-chi rides to the rescue of the general fund. Bless him!

[Felix Macacawitz]

"If Chichester kills this Bill I can guarantee you he will go down in defeat this spring in a primary!"

Yea, right. Just like last time. Gonna find another 'farther-right-than-the-soup-spoon' nut job to run against him.....again?

Get a life. The bill sucks as do the House morons pushing it.

OK Felix,

Chichester is now playing the blocking game. This will hurt him serverely in his district.Chichester will go down if Lingamfelter chooses to primary him.

[Dannyboy]

Russ should just go ahead and run as a Democrat.

[ha!]

lingamfelter...what a cook job

[asmith]

Chi Chi is ultra popular in the Northern Neck. Even Dems there will crossover to vote for him. Stafford gets a lot of new people so this is where the challenge would be. There's only 1 precinct in PW and a couple in Fauquier. I don't see how Ligamfelter wins. Close race yes. Defeats Chichester no.

Don't you think Chi Chi would have trouble even from some of his most loyal supporters if he attempted to knock off this transportation package. Don't forget, Russ Potts was once thought of as industructable in the 27th.

[Boydanny]

Benny should just go ahead and run as a Republican.

oh dannyboyy....

ole russ may not be a staunch repuke, but he is farrrrr from a demmy

[Alex P. Keaton]

Of course Dem's will cross over to vote for Chichester, minus the r he puts next to his name he is one. Why do I get the feeling them blocking this plan is only going to cost all of us more in taxes?

Lingamfelter will have to move and give up his House seat - he lives in Prince William - not in Chichester's district. No way he runs.

I guess Schapiro's gassiness brings a whole new meaning to main STREAM media.

[LoudounYoungDem]

Ben, wanna bring legitimacy to the blogosphere? Don't use terms like "LOL!!!!"

hahahha i love ben's commentary on how this is going. keep it up!

ben are you in richmond?

What is the bill #??????

[Arlington Hostage]

I believe its SB1417

It is going to very interesting to see what happens next. Chichester is very close to Wampler, Stolle, Norment and Stosch.....Is this the end of the "Gang of 5"?????

[Dannyboy]

"Jeff Schapiro is sitting on the floor, and one source tells me he may be a little gassy today."

Three little letters...

T...M...I...

[phriendlyjaime]

Dude, I am like, 8 blocks away. Should I bring him some beano?

[Arlington Hostage]

I just heard they may be as few as 3 votes in Finance for the GOP plan.

[brimur]

This is crazy. You'd think that first on the list to consult when drafting a grand compromise might be...um.. let's see.. I dunno.. the FINANCE COMMITTEE! Wow.

Well, back to square 1.

[webb slinger]

I don't really care what he says, but the fact that he put his name as Alex P. Keaton makes me like him a whole lot!!!!!!!!!!

I like you Alex!

WTF A RISE IN GAS TAX? WHO IS RUNNING OUR STATE?

[hrconservative]

After all the fanfare, its dead?? wow.

they should have started this whole thing with an across-the-board gas tax increase and not their cockamamie scheme. now we have something reasonable to discuss.

[NoTomJefferson]

Well, it looks like the gauntlet is thrown. At least the upcoming election will be pretty clear cut. Do you favor paying for roads or doing without.

[Arlington Hostage]

Methinks it's now time for sanity and reality to takeover.

No more one side negotiating with itself over a plan.

No more leaving some of the most important players out of the discussions.

My opening suggestions for a plan:

1) smaller sales tax increase - opening bid, two cents.
2) smaller amount from the general fund - opening bid, $150M.
3) other revenue generators (fines/licenses etc) stay in.
4) bonding stays in.
5) revised proposals for the two regional authorities, drastically reducing (or maybe even eliminating) the commercial real estate tax component, adding a small sales tax component (could be just gas, could be general).

Reactions?

The GA will not go for ANY and I do mean ANY sales taxes increases or gas tax increases so its a waste of time to even discuss.

As for the matter of the NOVA republicans. They can say they put forth a workable plan that the out of area senate killed because NOVA actually got too much out of it. It could actually work for them.

TOTAL STALEMATE ONCE AGAIN!!

[Chris]

Anything . . . ANYTHING at this point.

[novamiddleman@hotmail.com]

Here is my dream scenario

1. Agree on the landuse from the gov and the now defunct republican plan

2. Financials

For starters dedicate all of the budget surplus to transportation

this will annoy the governor and the spenders mostly Ds

then

Throw the budget to the republicans and say show me what to reduce/cut to make up the difference

(fight over that)

whatever is left have as a statewide gas tax increase and a slight transit tax

which will annoy the anti-taxers and Rs

Chances of this happening a million to 1 but this is what needs to happen IMHO

What will happen a sightly watered down version of what Kaine has will pass allowing the Ds to claim victory and march on towards taking back the house and senate.

[Doug]

What's the big deal over the state roads? I think they're fine.

[was this whole thing a joke?]

A stalemate is as good as a loss for the House leadership. They are trying so hard to give away their majority it is mind boggling---but fun to watch.

[not gretchen bulova]

Good news for Dems in '07 and honestly for the state in the long run.

not gretchen

I actually disagree. I think this will be good for Republicans because they can show they acted in genuine good will and were willing to compromise and got shot down by a handful of obstructionists in the senate. I actually think Chichester could be fair game in a primary if he does not retire.

I have a feeling the current leadership in the finance committee wanted to give one last big middle finger to both the Governor and the others in compromise discussions for leaving them out.

[not gretchen bulova]

The leaders of this were Republicans and that is how it will be portrayed. NOVA voters know the GA is run by Republicans, it will hurt them.

GOP'ers will go down- as they should. I'm and Indy- and I've been sold on GOP'ers promises to myself, the business community, Chambers, Econ Developers, etc for years now.

Each year, I was told a transportation plan was 'a done deal' and each year I beleived it.

I'm not believing it any longer. If R's can't get it done- than da-gone-it- D's should at least have a chance.

R's have had control for how many years now- and havent yet deliverd on a transpo plan. Sad but true.

Out with Albo. Out with Callahan. Out with Rust. Out with Davis, and O'Brien.

At least Cooch gets to claim he didnt vote for a tax increase. I never thought he'd survive- but now maybe he will. Devine intervention I guess.

This is what you get when you try to craft a bill with one group of people. There is a reason why we have two parties in the state legislature. The crafters of this bill are the ones who said "its my way or the (congested) highway." Well, the highway it is. May I suggest that a few Delegates and Senators take thier office supplies and belongings back with them when they return to NOVA after session. I don't think some of them will be coming back next year.

For Chichester, the easy way out is to approve the monstrosity known as the "compromise plan" and move on. Really, just get his committe to vote yes and be done.

Instead, he has honest beliefs about what's right and best for the state and takes a much harder path.

Agree or disagree, Chichester has principles. His beliefs get him in a lot of trouble, but he sticks with them anyway. Others would vote for anything they could and not think twice.

"Potts Plan to Raise Gas Tax by 5 percent passes 9-6"

Schapiro's going to be paying taxes out of his ass...

[The Whip]

"Potts Plan to Raise Gas Tax by 5 percent....."

You got a better MORE FAIR & EQUITABLE idea?

I'd love to hear it.

YES, Use the surplus! What a novel idea.

[The Whip]

"YES, Use the surplus! What a novel idea"

It won't be a surplus for long if you spend it.....duh.

Will there be an attempt to get this failed "compromise" to bypass the finance committee and bring it straight to the senate floor were it could get an up or down vote? Is this possible?

940... Probably not. Unlike the House the Senate has set rules on what bills go where.

[Albo Must Go]

The House Republicans were trying to foist a wholesale change on how we fund transportation projects in this Commonwealth upon the People. It was a half-baked, short-sighted, shell game. Chichester called it for what it was because he's a true fiscal conservative.

They all truly know what they need to do to solve the problem, but they all hate government so much they can't bring themselves to do what's right.

Modern Republican fiscal policy is built upon an unsustainable pyramid of debt, user fees, and balance sheet shell games. Reagan started it, the VA HOD picked up where he left up, and the clock is running out on them. It's unsustainable.

In the end, the People will see through this and the GOP will now sleep in the bed they have made.

Albo and the rest Must Go.

If the revenues grow by between 5-10 BILLION every two years, (we say budget, but we really mean revenues...a we find a way to increase spending to meet the revenues) Why not a freeze in spending to current levels for two years, put the growing revenues in an account and spend the 10 Billion in 2008 to fix the transportation needs of the Commonwealth

[Doug]

Again, all the whiners, and that's all there are on this issue from what I can see- what is the transportation problem in Virginia? We got a pothole problem somewhere?

I remember driving to parking lot U in the 80s, go Pats! and the dire predictions of gridlock everywhere, all the time and how horrible things were. 20 years later, downtown fairfax is actually EXACTLY the same. Some areas have changed, and all the rest of the state, away from NOVA, is so freaking easy to drive in all of this talk sounds like my kids fighting over a ruby crayon they don't want anyway.

Please, someone smart, splain to me what the problem is and tell me how today in NOVA is different from 1988. And tell me why anyone beyond Herndon should give a flying.. squirrel.

[Doug]

And let me say one other rude thing for any nimrod who things a comprehensive transportation plan will lose anyone an office (please someone now quote me CDC statistics and call me an idiot)- no one will lose their job over this. This is older than most people who post here- this being "transportation" as a general theme.

Here is a scenario where people could lose an elected job in NOVA- say someone had the stones to step up and say "I am putting up a bill to expand route 66 to 4 lanes from the beltway to DC, and 500mil of it will be from the surplus, and 500mil of it will be a local gas tax." That person would be re-elected to any NOVA seat from now until 2040. Any NOVA person of any party who voted against it would be looking for a job the next year. And the converse, most likely, south of Fburg and west of Dulles would be the case.

Take a look at local Roanoke elections from 2006. Who won all of those? The candidates who said they would tear down Victory Stadium. (I know, it's hard to relate to if you don't know what I'm talking about.) It wasn't Dems or Repubs. It was the candidates who said, yes, tear that giant POS down and do something else on the site.

Anyone here driven around Richmond on 295 or 64 or whatever the freak that road is? 4 lanes? Those are politicians for life, the ones who got the money for that. A completely useless project, unlike 66.

My point is- Transportation Bill - this amorphous blob will win no one nor lose anyone votes in 2007. It will also benefit few who need it nor those who don't. But, introduce the bill to widen 66, then you have a topic of hot conversation. (oh, put some other road here, and that works too.)

[Doug in Mount Vernon]

Doug, what the hell?

Don't drive much in NoVA do you? You ask how it's different from 1988!!????

BULLSHIT!

Dude you simply don't know what you're talking about. I'd like you to see traffic in Herndon/Sterling in 1988 and see it today, come back, and tell me what's changed.

Don't be a fool, man.
People beyond Herndon should give a flying squirrel because

#1 Lots of them get stuck in it too (people commute to NoVA from as far as Winchester and Spotsylvania and Culpeper).

#2 The rest of them benefit from the economic powerhouse of VA, and would suffer greatly if it stopped growing or began to contract even. That kind of impact in the metro area is not as unlikely as you apparently think if nothing is done. Businesses and people will leave (some have already started) if the quality of life continues to degrade.

It's not good for anyone in VA. Besides, it's disingenuous to suggest there aren't transportation needs in the rest of Virginia as well.

[UVA08]

Doug... Where do you live? NOVA I assume. Transportation is a statewide issue. Ask the rural residents who risk having their windshield broken on all the unpaved roads across the state. Or the same residents who watch as their children miss several days of schools for a small snow storm because the money for clean up just isnt there. Ask the residents along the Blue Ridge who navigate dangerous and winding roads that have no guard rails. Ask the residents of the Peninsula who can get stuck in traffic that spans from VA Beach to Williamsburg. Or perhaps you should ask those same residents, from the Tidewater, if transportation is an issue as a cat. 3 hurricane is cycling towards its coast. Ask the residents of Southwest Virginia who would like a Coalfields Expressway to help their economy. Ask the Charlottesville residents who have seen few real road improvements in years despite the population of the area growing at a rate higher than any other South of the Rappahannock. Or perhaps you should come back few years later and ask why people should care when the state only has enough money for maintenance.

Moreover, NOVA is the economic engine driving the state. If economic development up there is choked off by congestion the state stands to lose millions in tax revenue that benefits the entire state.

You asked how NOVA is different from 1988? Well I am not from NOVA, I was born just a few years before the year you mentioned, and even I can give you an answer to that question. Loudon has grown by 100,000 (more than the population of counties like Hanover or Albemarle and several other counties and cities cross the Commonwealth) in just 6 years. Prince William has grown by 88,000 in six years. Stafford, Spotsylvania, Fauquier, Warren, Clarke, and even Culpeper have become suburban outposts of NOVA and are growing at rapid rates. A lot has changed since then but one thing has remained the relatively the same: the way roads are funded.

I understand your frustration but you need to understand that this issue goes above and beyond being able to commute 40 miles to your .5 acre 5-bedroom suburban home without sitting in 2 hours of traffic. This deals with safety, economics, and quality of life not just for NOVAns but all Virginians.

[Doug in Mount Vernon]

Albo will go....if anyone runs against him!

At least we're gonna pick off the McQuigg district with Earnie Porta, and Callahan. God willing, maybe The Devil himself (Marshall) might even go down if his constituents who largely commute in from western PWC (talk about hell on Earth!) get a clue and vote reason over roil. Even Hugo looks a tad vulnerable....

But Rust, May, Miller, Frederick, and Lingamfelter don't appear to be going anywhere unless circumstance improve rapidly on the Dem side. What happened to the fabled Dem candidate recruitment effort this year?

Lost opportunities...damn that makes me mad.

I hope I'm proven wrong!

[UVA08]

BTW... HOW ABOUT THEM HOOS?!

[The Whip]

"Modern Republican fiscal policy is built upon an unsustainable pyramid of debt, user fees, and balance sheet shell games."

Exactly.

Who do you want to have pay for all of this....you or your grandchildren?

The gas tax IS A USER FEE. The more you use....THE MORE YOU PAY - how is that unfair?

[Ghost of Patrick Henry]

I have a novel idea: Why don' t all you folks in NOVA follow the lead of W. VA. Become the 51st state and leave the rest of us alone. You can elect your own General Assembly and vote to raise your taxes all you want. The reality is there aren't any real Virginians up there anyway.

[Doug]

Heh- there you go Doug in MV. I love you man, but you are missing my point. Has Herndon specifically gotten worse? Sure, in places. I learned how to drive on Route 28 when it was a lazy two lane road. When I worked at NEC, it was a huge road, but still with not too much traffic. Now it is fairly busy. At the sametime, growing up and going to Herndon High, Herndon was impossible in the early 1980s. They put in the parkway or whatever it is and things got better downtown and worse on the parkway.

So traffic moves around to different locations. It gets worse in some, gets less in others (rarely but sometimes) and some places its been a complete bear forever. I would bet you the intersection of chain bridge road (that's 128 right?) and 256 is the same today as it was in 1988. I was on it then and I was on it a few weeks ago. A few years ago when I lived in Reston, everything in old Reston near Lake Anne was quite nice compared to when I grew up- shopping at the little center there, etc. All the traffic had moved to Town Center.

But, again, what I saw on this thread was folks saying politicians are going to lose their jobs over this particular bill. I don't think they will. I think if a specific bill were up to widen 66 (ok, that has gotten worse over the years but it was bad in the early 1990s too) and folks voted against it, those folks, if they were in NOVA, would lose their jobs.

Doug makes some really good points that specific proposals that the average voter can recognize and evaluate will cost people jobs. The convoluted transportation package is not going to be explainable to anyone easily.

[J.R. Ewing]

Other than making Democrats into national stars, can the GOP in this state do anything right? Democrats aren't stupid, out of state people pay little to nothing under the House GOP plan, and that won't play well in November. A gas tax increase should pay for improving roads. Add to that, the plan would fall short for the financial needs of both Hampton Roads and Northern Virginia. Their plan is a shell game. Democrats will at least pick up the Senate in November.

J.R. -- the Dems run the Senate now, and have for a few sessions now.

[Doug in Mount Vernon]

Ahhh, I see. I thought you were saying that there wasn't a problem up here.

I agree with y'all, it may not translate to widespread Democratic victories if a specific delegate did not vote against a specific proposal. But on the other hand, that's not how transportation projects are identified for funding--legislation simply meets a VDOT budget or not, and VDOT and regional authorities then decide where and how to spend what is available, right?

If there were specific bills authored to fund specific projects, I'd wholeheartedly agree with you. But that ISN'T how it's done to my knowledge.

Thus, while I agree it will be difficult for Democrats to make the case in some races, don't count the potency of this issue in districts like May's, Miller's, Marshall's, McQuigg's, Lingamfelter's, and Frederick's. This is THE issue to most voters living there, actually. To some extent, it's also the issue in Hugo's, Rust's, and Callahan's districts as well.