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Warner's tax increase that helped the schools and saved the bond rating?

Not Larry Sabato

Much worse. I'm going to publish it early and put it up now.

Hey, let's give credit to another Democrat running in a primary who voted right on this bill -- Donald McEachin.

McEachin has always been a leader in favor of common-sense gun laws. That's why the NRA and other gun nuts despise him so much.

Not Larry Sabato

Good point.


Wag of the fanny to Ken Cooch for voting against this while he was in the Senate. Is anyone going to mention that?


Not Larry Sabato

I don't see a Senate version of this bill. Please point us to it.


I agree with you 100% Ben. While I tend to admire Johnny's independence, this goes too far. This was a perfectly reasonable bill that was accepted by many Second Amendment supporters. I mean, I support the Second Amendment, but this thing is really just common sense. Anybody who voted against this needs to take a serious look into his/her heart, especially with what has happened here in Blacksburg recently, and ask themselves one simple question: was it worth it?

Not Jack Herrity

Ben, I agree with you that this was a good bill. However, you have one critical fact wrong.

Cho was held involuntarily on a 48-hour "TDO" (temporary detention order). The TDO was issued by a magistrate after a social worker petitioned for Cho's involuntary commitment to a mental hospital.

As is common in Virginia, a judge found that there were alternatives to inpatient commitment and ordered Cho to receive outpatient treatment instead. I do not believe Cho ever sought treatment voluntarily, although the record is sketchy because many of his files have still not been released.

The loophole is that Cho was never formally committed to an inpatient treatment facility. Hence, according to Virginia's Resident Regent Graduate, he did not need to register as "mentally defective" under current law.

The loophole that exists is that court-ordered OUTPATIENT treatment does not require registration. This is a good bill, but based on the information I have (his actual TDO is posted on Slate) I don't think it would do the trick.



As much as I hate to give this (and I do hate to give this, so please don't take this personally), a wag of the fanny to NLS, for missing this bill, which I found doing only cursory research. It's Senate Bill 939, from 2003.

And a wag of the fanny to dannyboy, for mistaking Johnny Joannou's self-serving nature for "independence" -- and then admiring it.

Tom James

Why don't we start with not allowing non-citizens to purchase guns?

Not quite sure how the 2nd amendment applies to them?

Who defines a nutjob?

The people pushing dangerous anti-depressants?

Lot of science still out in this area.

After all anyone wanting to defend themselves is a "gun nut" from the McEachin post above.

Are the libs defining "nut jobs?" Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?


Tom James

All these shootings are not the fault of guns. They are the symptoms of a sick society.

Go after the illness not the symptoms.


Giant wag of the fanny to Tom James, who sounds pretty darn crazy himself.

Where did I hear the phrase "dangerous anti-depressants" last? Oh yeah, it was when I was accosted on the street by a band of whack-job scientologists.


You're right Ben...this is much worse.

Yeah without supporting the wagging of anyone's fanny or any other body part, you might want to voluntarily commit yourself, Tom.

Incidentally, legal resident aliens are traditionally also afforded other Constitutional rights like due process, freedom of religion, etc.



Pressing issue -- will dannyboy stand up to his boycrush Ken Stolle, who voted against the amendment in the Senate?

The blogosphere waits on baited breath, as its members watch classic Simpsons clips on youtube and bug their parents to buy them humidifiers for their furnished basements.

Tom James

Not sure how old SOMEONE who uses fannyboy as his name is and whether you are old enough to have a daughter, but replace that with mother or sister in this demonstration of why the law abiding citizen should be able to defend themselves.


Tom James

But we can continue to disarm law abiding "CITIZENS" who will respect the laws, and allow criminals and murder's who could care less about the law to prey on them.

Imean it's not Northern Va is not home to 2000+ of these lovely folks and we all know the law means so much to them.



I gather by "SOMEONE" he is referring to me, but I am old enough to know that the setting, camerawork, and acting on that video are some of the worst I've ever seen! Costume design, anyone?

You receive an additional wag of the fanny, for having 50+ blog postings and a grand total of 0 comments, averaging 0 per post. Even dannyboy musters more than that with his cartoons!

Perhaps your anemic blog performance is due to your cleverness in using phrases like "Nappy Headed Cho" when referring to the Virginia Tech massacre. An additional wag of the fanny for that.

Tom James

Is that the best you can do?

What about the topic, or is that suddenly me since you don't have an adequate response?

Case closed. I don't need folks like you taking away rights I and many before me have paid dearly for.

Good luck to you sir.

JMU Duke

The argument that "some crazy people can get guns, so everyone else should have one too" just doesn't hold water.

If we live in a sick society, as you claim Tom (and I don't disagree) how is it possible that the next step in your mind is to arm the people living in the sick society? Get guns out of our schools, off of our streets and out of our homes and people will stop getting shot with them.

Tom James

So the bad guys aren't going to find a way to get them?

Why is these massacres only take place where people are defenseless?

No shootings at police stations, or NRA meetings, or military bases, or anywhere else there exist the possibility someone might shoot back.

What don't you get about that.

Did the 9-11 terrorist use guns to kill all of those people and scare our country and start WWIII.

How many guns involved in IED's.

Get real folks

Tom James

Going to cut my grass. I'll check back for rational thought this evening.

JMU Duke

"So the bad guys aren't going to find a way to get them?"

That is why we have police officers, and a well-regulated militia. Not vigilante soccer moms and CPA's armed to the tooth.


My "response on the topic"?

You think that we should take "dangerous anti-depressants" away from crazy people and give them guns instead.

Any rational person can see how absurd your opinion is. Wag of the fanny!


When is fannyboy going to get that "Warner of the Week Award" that everyone's been saying he should get?

Joannou. What a jerk.


If I get the chance, I will certainly ask Senator Stolle to explain himself on this one. A big mistake on his part, but I would like to know his reasoning on this one before I make any judgments.

This was an awful bill. It would have treated ANY person who VOLUNTARILY chose to seek inpatient mental health care for ANY reason as a second-class citizen.

This is the opposite of where we should be going with this discussion. Instead of trying to understand and advance a discussion of mental health, you're launching a witch hunt against people protecting the rights of people who are not anything like that vicious killer.

People commit themselves for any number of reasons such as, suppose their family dies in a car accident, or some similar tragedy occurs in their lives. This bill would act as a disincentive for people to get the care they need and would turn them into the bogeyman.

Joannou cast a good vote on this. This bill is akin to conducting a heart surgery with a chainsaw.


Tom James, "No shootings at police stations?" Where have you been? We had TWO police officers killed last year at the Centreville police station by a mentally ill 18 year old boy.

Does Northern Virginia not count?

His father,btw, had an arsenal of loaded weapons laying around the house, although he KNEW his son had severe mental problems.

Our police officers have been trying for at least a decade to prohibit people from carrying weapons into police stations. Every year, our fine delegates on the Militia and Police Committee (Johnny was a member at one point; not sure if he still is) vote it down. So much for "support your local police."


Slap on the fanny to dannyboy for his prompt response on his boycrush Ken Stolle. I actually wrote "mancrush" as the more appropriate term, but I figure I'll reserve that phrase for the moment when he changes his name to "dannyman."

Not Jack Herrity

You are still missing the point. This legislation is NOT the issue. The issue is involuntary outpatient treatment. This bill would have applied only to inpatient treatment.

Pass this bill and Cho still gets through because he was never committed to inpatient care. The Gov just announced an Executive Order closing the loophole. It basically adds involuntary outpatient treatment to the current law on inpatient treatment.

This bill is still worth considering, but let's be clear of what the context is. Most mental health advocates oppose this type of legislation because it further punishes those who do the right thing - voluntarily seek treatment. They make a good point - if you "punish" people who seek treatment voluntarily, you take away the incentive to seek treatment voluntarily. If you are going to take away all someone's rights, why would he voluntarily seek treatment?



Anonymous, you think that people whose family has been killed in a car accident, who are severely depressed should have unfettered access to guns? Did it ever occur to you that these people shouldn't have guns because they might be tempted to take their own lives? Have you considered that while they might not be homicidal maniacs, they might be so depressed as to be a danger to themselves?

So they won't get help because they are afraid of losing their guns? And we--the other people in this society--have to accept that and concede to their wishes?



Demonizing those seeking any kind of mental health services. That's the answer.


From Ben:

"I really wish the public would stop allowing politicians to "scenario" their way out of every tragedy with "other" ways it could have happened if they had taken action. It's long past time for accountability."

Bravo, Ben!

Tom James

"mentally ill 18 year old boy"

How will any law stop him, and how was he stopped?

Tom James

btw I try to stay south and west of Fredericksburg. I haven't lost a thing in that region of the country, except maybe tax dollars.

Tom James

"Michael Kennedy, armed with an AK-47, fired more than 70 rounds in the parking lot of the Sully District police station on May 8, killing Det. Vicky Armel and Master Police Officer Michael Garbarino. Kennedy was shot to death by police."

"Kennedy's father, Brian Kennedy, was charged earlier this month with helping his son obtain the AK-47 used in the rampage. Federal prosecutors claim he was illegally in possession of a small arsenal of weapons, including rifles, shotguns, handguns and more than 2,500 rounds of ammunition."

How did the law work in this case? Boy I feel much safer, don't you?

The real question might be what's in the water in Centreville and Westfield High School? Is it filled with mentally diseased liberals?




There's a shooting at a military base.

Here's another one...


You're right there have been NO shootings at military bases...none.


So you've disproved your point Tom James...right?

Tom James

I don't think you classify Texas as a massacre.

"It was an argument,” he said. "It was more or less a disgruntled employee.” he said.

And where is ZAMBOANGA CITY?

Not in the US I don't believe. So what is the relevance?

But keep trying I'm sure you'll find an exception somewhere.

How will changing any laws prevent or protect you?

The laws under the UCMJ aren't stricter than civilian law?


Well, Tom James, it is not illegal to bring a weapon into a police station. And although the police were armed and trained, they were unable to save two of their own.

Mr. Kennedy was in illegal possession of his arsenal of weapons, the police contend, because he lied on his application form. He said he never used drugs, when he is an alleged frequent marijuana user.

Tom James

Self-defense is the answer.

I say all you anti's let the police and government protect you and your family, and put these stickers on your clothing, cars, and homes.


Advertising your position.

And I'll be an American and take care of myself and my family.


Tom James,

I support your position to an extent. But you said there were NO examples of police station shootings or military base shootings.

"No shootings at police stations, or NRA meetings, or military bases, or anywhere else there exist the possibility someone might shoot back."

You can't defend NO shootings. They've happened. End of story.

Tom James

It's illegal to bring a concealed weapon anywhere you don't have a permit or are intoxicated or under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

Didn't stop a Hanover Circuit Court Judge. Judge Alderman.

And I encourage you to take a weapon exposed without a permit into a police station and see what type of response you get. Please video it for us all!

And oh my GOD he's a criminal in possession of weapons he got illegally!

What do we do, pass another law?

But GOD forbid law abiding citizens are allowed to protect themselves from these creeps.

Self sufficient, self supporting, self defense. We are responsible for ourselves and each other safety in an unsafe, non-utopian world.

Israelis live in a much more dangerous world than we do, who do they depend on for their safety? They are all required to serve in the military. They practice and train civil defense. But God forbid we ask all Americans to protect the freedoms they enjoy.


"Israelis live in a much more dangerous world than we do, who do they depend on for their safety? They are all required to serve in the military. They practice and train civil defense. But God forbid we ask all Americans to protect the freedoms they enjoy."

You've contradicted yourself. What are you trying to prove by saying this?

Tom James

Kevin not sure what your goal is common sense or cross examination.

Since I'm not an attorney just joe citizen trying to survive and take care of my loved ones. I'll get my attorney to send you a brief and explain my position.

Will that do?


I'd also like to address your rape fantasy video.

Assuming your daughter/wife is eligible to carry a concealed weapon, I suppose that is her choice. But are we now going to arm everybody? What about kids? How can they protect themselves against child abductors, if they don't have a gun? What about potential rape victims who are younger than 18? Are these helpless would-be victims going to be left at the mercy of the police?

Your would-be rapist was helpful enough to come at the girl straight on. I--and thousands like me--can tell you from personal experience that attackers, rapists, maulers, etc. nearly always come up from behind. They like that element of surprise. What if the girl can't get her gun out fast enough, and the attacker finds it and uses it against her?

And instead of attacking the mental health of people who live in Centreville, No Va, liberals, et al, perhaps you need to get that honking big log out of your own eye. I'd like to know why you guys are always harping on the rape-my-woman scenario? What is up with that?

Reminds me of the case in Texas a few years ago. A man heard a noise in the closet, got his gun, opened the door and fired...killing his own daughter who was playing a joke on him.

The man was devastated, of course, but consoled himself with the thought that he did what he had to do--what if there had been a rapist behind that door? He HAD to protect his wife!

Let's say that there had been a murdering rapist behind the door instead of his daughter with the unfortunate sense of humor. What if our hero had opened the door and the rapist was the one who shot first? Hero dead, wife dead AND raped. If men like this one were REALLY all that concerned about their wives' safety, they'd take their gun and their wife and the cell phone and leave the freaking house. Why take a chance? Is macho pride really worth more than your loved ones' safety?

I have no problem with people who choose to keep a gun in their house for self-protection. But don't delude yourself and try to delude us at the same time with your fear-mongering. There are far too many out there who are looking for a chance to prove themselves a hero--and the consequences can often be terrible.


And back to the subject at hand, how would this law, or the Brady law, or any of the other and few guns laws on the books have kept this young woman from arming herself?

Why is it your ONLY reaction to any gun law is "Gun Control! Gun BANNERS! They're taking away our GUNS!!!"

Jesus, can't we get past this crap already?

Tom James

Here's what I said:

Why is these massacres only take place where people are defenseless?

No shootings at police stations, or NRA meetings, or military bases, or anywhere else there exist the possibility someone might shoot back.

Should I have said NO MASSACRES instead of no shootings. Sorry, I'm just joe citizen.


I would like for you Tom to believe me that my intentions are nothing but honest.

You said Israel has to protect itself with its own citizens because they are in a dangerous situation in the Middle East. I agree with that. They have to do it for self preservation.

But if we live in a less dangerous society, then why do we need MORE protection. I would offer up that we live in a society that is not as dangerous as the media makes it out to be. So more guns wouldn't necessarily be the answer.


"Here's what I said:

Why is these massacres only take place where people are defenseless?

No shootings at police stations, or NRA meetings, or military bases, or anywhere else there exist the possibility someone might shoot back.

Should I have said NO MASSACRES instead of no shootings. Sorry, I'm just joe citizen."

But violence still occurs. It doesn't matter to what degree. That's just happenstance. What we should BOTH agree on is that violence still occurs no matter the situation.

Tom James

The reaction is because anyone can get any weapon they want anytime they want, regardless of the law.

You only handicap the law abiding citizen with your laws of disarmament.

But how stupid am I for trying to explain this if you don't already get it?

And there are more ways to practice self defense than guns. But where are you hearing any of this?

If kids get in a fight at school and the person who defended themselves gets the same punishment as the person who started it, what is that teaching kids.



Exactly what you are debating me over.

I know you don't get it. So go get your butt kicked in the real world.

You don't have a problem fighting me, so why do you have a problem fighting bad guys. Or am I the bad guy for wanting to fight back?



Tom James

Kevin we agree that utopia does not exist.


I'm a little late to this--and it seems as if you all are having such a humdinger that I may only stick a baby toe in...

Tom--I see your points regarding gun laws primarily restricting the law abiding (not the criminals) as correct to a point. As a general matter, I agree that your common thug whose business it is to engage in violent behavior is going to get a gun nomatter how many laws we have on the books.

But I'm not sure that that same logic holds true with someone like Cho. I'm no shrink, but if handguns had been illegal, I'm not convinced that he would have driven to a back alley in DC to purchase an illegal one off the black market. Maybe he would have, but I don't think it's as clear a case--could be the extent of his "lawbreaking ability" was to lie on a few forms--but that he wouldn't have had the cojones to actually obtain an illegal blackmarket gun.

All to say, I would potentially distinguish between a mentally ill person like Cho's ability to surmount stricter gun laws and a hardened criminal's ability to do so. In the case of a criminal, I agree that more gun laws aren't going to make us safer. With someone like Cho, I'm not so sure.

Tom James

I hear what you are saying Carrington.

However, Cho planned this for a long time. He outsmarted everyone in the school and system for a long time. He remained free and on the streets after his initial education to the system in his early years at school.

He supposedly had a hit list at his high school.

The government doesn't have the speed or concern to react proactively. No government worker is going to do anything to screw up their benefits and retirement. That is the reason they work for the government isn't it? Security?

I can't see anything but deadly force stopping him, since commonsense was unable too.

To quote Lefty Kreh: "Commonsense is not so common."



Your butt must be sore by the smacking and wagging. What is your profession?

Not a Republican


This bill was and still is too sweeping. If people voluntarily admit themselves to get help for depression caused by a specific event such as the death of a love one or a nasty divorce, and they can get better with help, they should not be punished for seeking help.

Unless they are judged to be a danger to themselves or others, we should not be punishing people and taking away their rights because they sought help and tried to better themselves.



Well, as a sound bite for campaign ads, this could be hugely devastating for those Northern Virginia candidates who voted for it. Not that it has any merit, but then, most sound-bite ads never do.


"You only handicap the law abiding citizen with your laws of disarmament."

I would like to know which law-abiding citizen has ever been denied a gun due to gun laws? Are you talking about the federal background check?

"No government worker is going to do anything to screw up their benefits and retirement."

This is an incredibly offensive thing to say.

I guess you should talk to the Centreville police officers' survivors. You know, the ones who were victims of a shooter on police station grounds, which you claim can't happen.

Or talk to the hundreds of spouses, parents and children on other law enforcement officers, DEA, ATF, Capitol Police, etc. who have lost their lives protecting citizens. I hope to God these citizens were more grateful than you.


And Nate, I would ask again--why is this bill a "punishment" for those who try to get help? The people you cite are severely DEPRESSED. They are therefore more likely to commit suicide. A severely depressed person shouldn't have guns laying around. If not for our own protection, then for theirs.

LAS- it doesn't trouble you that this poorly written amendment didn't even try to include some kind of finding of danger? So even if a person has severe nightmares, or any other number of mental health problems that are NOT depression, they are still caught by this bill.

It seems to me that this reveals your lack of understanding of the diversity of mental health issues one might deal with. or otherwise you prefer to substitute your judgment for that of a court or a psychiatric professional.

This bill is only acceptable if you are in favor of banning guns generally. Because it's breadth bears no direct relationship to the problem. It's just a disgustingly politicized excuse for a new restriction.

Not Jack Herrity

Anon, the bill speaks specifically to "voluntary commitment" and I think it is narrow enough to pass muster.

Mental health authorities won't commit you (even voluntarily) unless you're severely ill. Depression and other generally less serious illnesses probably won't get you committed, unless you become an "imminent danger to yourself or others." This isn't as broad as you think.


I miss Harry Parrish.

NJH- Voluntary commitment can be for a multitude of reasons and is generally not restricted to dangerous individuals.

Moreover, even in cases where a person commits themselves for fear they will attempt suicide after a particularly tragic event in their lives is a type apart from an individual who is clinically suicidal. To blur this distinction is hapless.

Virginia law on voluntary commitment to a state mental health facility:

Any state facility shall admit any person requesting admission who has been (i) screened by the community services board or behavioral health authority that serves the city or county where the person resides or, if impractical, where the person is located, (ii) examined by a physician on the staff of the state facility, and (iii) deemed by the board or authority and the state facility physician to be in need of treatment, training, or habilitation in a state facility.

Tom James

LAS, how offensive are kids/young adults being murdered and one of Cho's teachers writing this:


I guess offensive is relative

Not Tom Moss

Ben this is a new low. Johnny is a great delegate and to put this on him is ridiculous. In very poor taste sir.


Someone else's bad behavior in no way excuses yours, Tom James. I'm assuming you are an adult but this "but Billy did it, too!" crap makes me wonder.

For the love of God, be a mensch and take responsibility for your own actions.

Not Jack Herrity

Again, they won't commit you to a psychiatric hospital (read - inpatient) unless you are seriously mentally ill. Anyone who thinks otherwise really ought to go try it sometime. There is such a lack of bed space that these hospitals spend half their time kicking people out into the streets who really do need treatment.


Tom James

Someone else:

Giovanni is a State/Government Employee.

Nothing has been brought up about her behavior in all of this and what possible roll she may have played.

And now she gets to profit and become famous for her actions? I would like know how many speaking engagements she has been offered since Cho made her famous.


I stand by my statement:

The government doesn't have the speed or concern to react proactively. No government worker is going to do anything to screw up their benefits and retirement. That is the reason they work for the government isn't it? Security?

All the government workers at Tech responsible for hiring and keeping Giovanni around are just as guilty as Cho for promoting and endorsing someone like Giovanni and her filth.

You want to endorse it as a taxpayer go ahead, but I refuse to. And everyone not making noise about this is the reason our society is ill.

I don't understand what a statement like "but Billy did it, too!" has to do with what I said. I, again, stand by what I said.

I could make my case and use examples to prove it all day long. But I'll you leave with one more example of a government employee who is a possible cause of what happened at Tech at least a contributing member of your government protection squad of which I have little faith in or respect of. granted there are exceptions to everything.


Leave peoples rights alone.

Do we now take away the rights of the MAry Washington DUI president for his self-destructive behavior and possible harm he may be to others. Sounds like he is mentally defective to me?

What recourse does a person have if they recover from a mental illness or is there 2nd amendment right gone forever because of curable illness?

Way to complex an issue to just start taking away citizens rights when the government is so screwed up, incompetent, corrupt, and wasteful.



Not Jack Herrity

Tom I'm not sure what your point is. Nikki Giovanni is a nationally renowned poet who just happens to be a professor at Virginia Tech. In other words, Tech is lucky to have her, not the other way around. She kicked Cho out of her class because he was acting like an ass. What about that needs an investigation or even an explanation? Every other sentence you contradict yourself.


Tom James



Well here are other opinions if you don't like mine.

Nationally renowned for what and by who?

James C. Collier said...

Tom: her poems at 25 were not so different than Cho's. Her recent 'thuglife' tattoo and testaments align her with, and glorify criminals and their behavior. Here is a sample...

The True Import Of Present Dialogue, Black vs. Negro (For Peppe, Who Will Ultimately Judge Our Efforts)
by Nikki Giovanni

Can you kill
Can you kill
Can a nigger kill
Can a nigger kill a honkie
Can a nigger kill the Man
Can you kill nigger
Huh? nigger can you
Do you know how to draw blood
Can you poison
Can you stab-a-Jew
Can you kill huh? nigger
Can you kill
Can you run a protestant down with your
'68 El Dorado
(that's all they're good for anyway)
Can you kill
Can you piss on a blond head
Can you cut it off
Can you kill
A nigger can die
We ain't got to prove we can die
We got to prove we can kill
They sent us to kill
Japan and Africa
We policed europe
Can you kill
Can you kill a white man
Can you kill the nigger
in you
Can you make your nigger mind
Can you kill your nigger mind
And free your black hands to
Can you kill
Can a nigger kill
Can you shoot straight and
Fire for good measure
Can you splatter their brains in the street
Can you kill them
Can you lure them to bed to kill them
We kill in Viet Nam
for them
We kill for UN & NATO & SEATO & US
And everywhere for all alphabet but
Can we learn to kill WHITE for BLACK
Learn to kill niggers
Learn to be Black men

What a beautiful mind she has and is so proud of, she still has this posted on her website for the world to know her!

Keep her at your house with your kids.

Tom James


Giovanni [email her] is a small town version of New York City charlatan Al Sharpton, You might think that the ringmaster of the 1987 Tawana Brawley hoax whose racist rhetoric helped incite the Crown Heights pogrom of 1991 and the Freddie's Fashion Mart mass murder of 1995 might, like Don Imus, have talked himself out of a job by now.

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