HB894

Rather than explain this bill, I yield to Delegate David Englin who does a far better job than I could.

The bill goes to the Senate on a 60-37 vote.  Five Democrats joined the Republicans on this vote- two from far southwest Virginia (Dan Bowling and Bud Phillips), and two from solidly Democratic districts in need of a primary (Algie Howell and the crooked Joe Morrissey). 

The final "Democrat" in favor:  Our "leader" Ward Armstrong.  Again I ask- LEADER OF WHO?  The leader of the Democratic Party wants to close twenty four women's health clinics- including ones that provide "birth control, family planning services, prenatal care, pap-smears and cancer screenings"?  Leaving access to women in state at ONE OPEN CLINIC STATEWIDE?

THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE.

Comments

[sullyvoter]

No ben, what's unacceptable is women dying on the table in abortion clinics because the proper equipment is not available to save their lives when complications arise.
Democrats preach about making abortions SAFE and rare, well we can't make them safe until the clinics are required to have the same equipment as an outpatient clinic. Shame on VA for letting it go this long.

[woman of choice]

Thankfully, this will not get out of committee in the senate.

These restrictions are unnecessary. Those who say they are should also lobby for the same to be put on clinics that extract wisdom teeth, perform vascetomies, or perform lasik eye surgery.

Doesn't the minority leader often vote with the majority so that he can move to reconsider later, if necessary? That may not be what Armstrong did here, but isn't it a possibility?

[Not Larry Sabato]

I dont think you can reconsider a bill after it passes and goes to the Senate- but I could be wrong about that. Virginia is very old school about this, when it says "bill", that is a literal piece of paper that gets passed from body to body.

[sullyvoter]

um there have been women that have died in VA, bled to death in fact, because there wasn't proper equipment to save them by the time the paramedics came. There was a case in Alexandria several years ago where this happened, and numerous cases have followed.
And I'm pretty sure that those types of clinics you've listed above, "women of choice",are regulated by the particular "industries" that they fall under. Board of Optometry, Dentistry and whatever for that last one there.
I actually worked in the GA when this bill came up several years ago ... abortion clinics are one of the VERY few "surgical" facilities that aren't subjected to regulation.

Hi, I'm Bob Marshall. No abortions, no sex, and nothing that has to do with icky bodies.

Vote for me for US Senate so I can make sure you dont have any rights to your own body.

[notgretchenbulova]

Anon 12:19 -

I doubt he is voting Yay to reconsider later because he voted for the bill in 2006 and 2007.

Sullyvoter, could you please substantiate your claims? Surely, if there were such deaths occurring there would be documentation or media coverage.

Delegate Sickles would be the best one in the caucus to replace Ward.

Just to add some additional details to this discussion...

Legal abortion care entails half the risk of death involved in a tonsillectomy and one-hundredth the risk of death involved in an appendectomy. The risk of death from abortion is lower than that from a shot of penicillin.

Physician's offices providing abortion are already regulated by state and federal agencies. They also meet licensing standards similar to offices where other medical procedures are provided, such as plastic or oral surgery.

The architectural, procedural, staffing, and equipment requirements of ambulatory surgery centers are unrelated to providing safe first-trimester abortion services.

The cost of complying with these unnecessary and burdensome requirements is estimated to be between $1.5 and $2.0 million. Two clinics in Virginia have retrofitted their offices to comply with these regulations; the rest would most likely be forced to close.

Delegate Englin and the 36 other Delegates who saw this bill for what it is and voted against it should be commended.

[David Englin]

Ben - I appreciate you drawing attention to this important issue, but again your criticism of Ward Armstrong is way off base. Ward's vote was no different that Dan Bowling's or Bud Phillips'. The three of them represent very socially conservative districts, and -- unlike the other caucus -- we do not bind our members to vote against their own interests.

At the risk of engaging sullyvoter, whom I suspect cannot be persuaded on this issue, I just want to correct the record on a couple of things:

- Oral surgeons, plastic surgeons, and other medical practitioners may be certified and accredited by various national professional organizations, but those credentials are entirely voluntary, are not required to perform those services, and have absolutely no regulatory weight in Virginia.

- Just like doctors who perform abortions, all of those medical practitioners are already regulation by the Commonwealth under Title 18 of the Virginia Administrative Code, and the facilities in which they practice are already regulated by the Federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

In other words, doctors who perform abortions are no less or more regulated than doctors who surgically remove un-erupted teeth, vacuum fat tissue from under your skin, or perform any number of invasive surgical procedures.

What's UNACCEPTABLE Ben is the millions of human beings killed every year and not given the chance to live. Once again, you have proven yourself to be a fucking retard.

[t]

Abortion is simply big people killing little people.

Why don't you fucking pricks try to cut up someone who can fight back.

Snivelling cowards.

[PWConservative]

Do you want to know why social security will go bankrupt in 20 years? we've killed off 1/3rd of our generation. That 1/3rd would have provided the new workforce to pay for your social security. Think about that ben when you are broke and dying... You caused your own destruction

[Sam]

Ugh, this abortion crap... Look, the real debate is do you believe that an embryo is a human life, and if not, at what point do you believe it is? Almost all people who believe an embryo is an independent human life are pro-life, and almost all people who do not are pro-choice.

There is legitimate science pointing both ways. I happen to believe an embryo is not an independent life until viability, and as you may suspect, I am fully pro-choice until viability, but believe in banning late-term abortions except in cases of danger to the life of the mother.

I recognize that many people disagree with me. t, for example, believes an embryo to be a life, quite clearly. To me, the fact that he then thinks abortion should be banned makes sense, and is respectable. I do not think t hates women as a result, disrespects women, or anything of the sort. I disagree with his science, but understand where he's coming from.

t, unfortunately, does not seem to share the same understanding of me. And this is the problem of the abortion debate from both sides. For Heaven's sakes people, stop the name-calling. All it does is entrench people into their pre-set sides and accomplishes NOTHING.

To call pro-choicers baby-killers is insane. To call pro-lifers women-haters is similarly nuts. The fact is, these are two different belief systems over when life begins, and belittling someone who believes differently from you on this just makes you a small person yourself.

To you it may be murder, or to you it may be taking away your personal autonomy, but to the other person it's the opposite. The failure to understand and respect this is a large part of what's wrong with the abortion debate and American politics as a whole today.

[Bubby]

Well, stick a fork in the conversation - The Ron Paul People have shown up with their Ron Paul Reality.

[PWConservative]

Sam (or is it son of sam)
If abortion is just a woman exercising control over her body, How can a baby be termed a part of a womans body if Half of them have penises. Think about it

[PWConservative]

and if your so concerned about women, how about the ones that die from unregulated death chambers?

[Sam]

I don't see how that's an obstacle. Embryos start out with the sexual organs for both genders until its gender is developed, from your belief on life, how is it a man if it has a vagina, or a woman if it has the beginnings of a penis?

[Sam]

I do care about making sure abortion clinics are safe. However, as Del. Englin already pointed out, Title 18 already regulates these clinics, and the deaths from legal abortion in Virginia are EXTREMELY rare. As another poster pointed out, a fraction of the death rate of tonsillectomies, penicilin shots, or appendoctomies.

It's a sad day in our society when certain American citizens erupt over Michael Vick killing some dogs when millions of innocent human beings are murdered every year! Very sad indeed. Some people really need to get their priorities straight.

SULLYVOTE and now PWConservative:

Still waiting for evidence of women dying as a result of abortion in Virginia... It makes it very hard to take your argument seriously when there is so much name calling and so little documentation for your claims.

[Bubby]

Yeah! Like indignation about a professed born again Christian President that provoked a war, taking +100,000 lives! The people that helped him ascend, who sung his praises, will be judged harshly on their day.

[Dem Legislator in Search of Clue]

Some of you may ask why we're still fighting this abortion fight?

Well, when our own Constitution provides for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, it should be come clear to you that the Supreme Court overreached in calling this a "right" and should have at a minimum left this up to the states.

[Sam]

"Dem" Legislator - The Constitution provided for no such thing, you're thinking of the Declaration of Independence. Again, we're getting into the science here a bit over whether the embryo is a life, but do you really think control over one's own body isn't the kind of things the framers of the ninth amendment had in mind, even if this specific embodiment of it isn't what they were thinking about?