Fairfax Firefighters vs. Fairfax Police

From the WaPo:

"The average base salary for a Fairfax firefighter is $56,990 a year, compared with $52,754 for a police officer, according to county figures."

Why does the WaPo think there is a $4,000 a year difference between uniformed personnel?

"The International Association of Fire Fighters Local 2068 brings big money to the table: more than $100,000 in the past four years, nearly all of it going to Chairman Gerald E. Connolly (D) and the incumbent supervisors seeking reelection Tuesday, according to the nonpartisan Virginia Public Access Project."

Is the Washington Post really that dense to not notice that the police department charged Gerry Connolly with a crime that could have netted him a year in prison?

And now the police are paid far less than another branch of uniformed personal?  Hmm....
(GC Sucks, Part 49)

Comments

[Bryan J. Scrafford]

I think the most important thing here is the fact that the men and women who risk their lives for our community deserve more pay then they are currently receiving. It is a shame that these men and women don't earn more and many of them are forced to live outside of Fairfax County due to the enormous cost of living here.

[novamiddleman]

Mr Scrafford let me give you a dose of reality

The average base salary for a technical college graduate is right around there

for all the liberal arts majors its thousands less

Bottom line thats a very good entry level salary on its own.

When you factor in the automatic 5% raises a year and overtime benefits. Fairfax County is more than generous with these positions.

[Not Larry Sabato]

I'm not debating the levels of compensation- I am saying that there is no reason for one to be paid far more than another for political reasons.

[novamiddleman]

Ok I misintereperted the definition of base salary

Still its not bad

These are the absolute minimum starting salaries

Also remember a college education is not a requirement

Police $45,741
Fire $47,472
Fire/EMS $52,338

I know many college graduates that would kill for that

I also question the averages presented. It would seem either there are a ton of new recruits or the math falls apart somewhere.

Finally after looking at the post article firefighters have averageed over a 10% annual pay raise!!!! police are less than that but still.

[Sam]

novamiddleman - the point isn't just income, it's income vs. cost of living. The county can AFFORD to pay these people more, since we live in a high-income area, and the cost of living is extremely high. You can't compare the average police and fire salaries to averages nationwide, you have to compare them to the average salaries of college graduates (or whatever group you want to compare to) IN FAIRFAX COUNTY.

Getting paid $30,000 a year in Podunk is great, getting paid $45,000 in Fairfax is not.

[Andy]

Nationwide averages don't mean anything as stated above by Sam.
I think you've done a great job drawing correlations on Connolly, but this time I think you're off.
Firefighters generally get paid more than uniform entry-level police officers because the hours are less convenient and less conducive to family life. I think you'll find this to be the case if you look at the difference in other localities.

[novamiddleman]

Fairfax County median income 107,000

2 Firefighters/Police/even teachers working are pretty darn close to the median income

I say thats extremely fair

The county can also AFFORD to give money back to taxpayers. Look, I know all of you are chomping at the bit to make us the Peoples Republic of Fairfax but cmon now show a little restraint.

[James Young]

There's a difference. Given. Was there a difference BEFORE Gerry Connelly was Chairman?

Gerry Connelly may suck, Ben, but there's not enough evidence to draw that conclusion in this post.

BTW, are you suggesting that Leslie won't reward her union sponsors by trying to destroy Virginia's Right to Work law.

What color is the sky on YOUR planet, Ben?

[Chris]

Its amazing, there are now as many "Gerry Sucks" posts as there are members of Byrne's Brigade. 49-49.

[jbman]

Across the region there is a consistent disparity in the average salaries of police and firefighters. According to a salary search on Indeed.com, the average Arlington police officer makes $46,000 while the average firefighter makes $49,000. In Loudoun, the average police officer makes $41,000 while the average firefighter makes $44,000. In Prince William the average officer is at $47,000 while the average firefighter is at $50,000. The Fairfax numbers on Indeed.com are $47,000 for a cop and $49,000 for a firefighter. They’re a little different than the numbers cited by the Post, but not that different. This isn't a big deal. Stop lying about Connolly. There's more than enough real stuff to go after him on.

[Sean Holihan]

As far as I know, every locality within Virginia has a disparity between firefighters and policemen.

According to various salary websites, firefighter recruits earn a little less than 1K more than police recruits nationwide.

In Virginia Beach I believe that firefighter recruits earn about 1K more a year. In Norfolk, firefighter recruits earn around 3-4K more.

You're a little off base here.

[Interested Observer]

so, when Obama wins the popular and delegate vote tonight will we get off this Gerry kick for awhile?

[Kobersteen]

My name is Joel Kobersteen. I am the Communications Director for the Fairfax County Professional Fire Fighters & Paramedics - IAFF Local 2068. I read with great interest the comments here. I would like to thank those who support us, but there are some subjects I would like to touch on.

The article correctly states that the starting salary for a Fairfax County Fire Fighter is higher than the starting salary of a Fairfax County Police Officer, but what the article does NOT mention is the fact that the quoted rate is for officers who are on a 40 hour per week work schedule, whereas the quoted rate for the fire fighters is for a 56 hour work week.

Do we participate in political action? Absolutely. In a right to work state, we are limited on how to further our agenda of protecting and improving the health, safety and security of our members. The better that the public and the BOS understand our jobs, the better that we can help each other.

Right now, your Fairfax County Firefighters are greater than 10% below the Washington, D.C. area AVERAGE in compensation. We understand the difficulties and are working with the county on solutions. In this tough budget year, we also are doing less with more. Unfortunately, some of it is done at the expense of the effectiveness of how we can perform our job. For a startling example, see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_K-K6o5cGc

If you should have any questions that I could help answer, please do not hesitate to drop me an e-mail at JKobersteen@fairfaxfirefighters.org.

Again, thank you for your support.

[Dan]

The 49 part series about Connolly has been fascinating and all, but how about something on the Democratic Presidential Primaries tonight.

Clinton appears to have been correct about North Carolina. It seems to be a game changer.

And it's a big state too. And we know that the big states are more important and all that.

[Interested Observer]

the difference in average base salary between two uniformed professions can be attributable to a wide range of issues. Let's just try three:

1. Work hours/differentials might be different. Firefighters work long night shifts. There are fewer police on the street at night.
2. The police force might be at the beginning of a hirng binge with new, lower salaried workers.
3. Attrition rates or retirement rates will be different.
4. Maybe it costs a little more to retain firefighters - the market economy at work?

Ok, that's four reasons.

Now let's see how Obama trouncing Clinton in a big state and coming close in a smaller one adds up to a Clinton victory. I do see that she is trying to change the counting rules...

Bottomline is that there are mo big races left for her to pick up delegates. PR has something like 77, but that is a tough case to make wyn Obama is across the threshold.

Obamas will have won the popular vote, most states, most pledged delegates, and (I predict) most superdelegates by the end of May. When Clinton figures this out is the last question in the campaign.

[Not Jack Herrity]

Ben, you might want to check the numbers on this one. I think Fairfax police officers are traditionally paid less than their firefighter comrades because firefighters work more hours. Firefighters in Fairfax work 24-hour shifts and I think their "work week" is something like 72 hours.

NJH

[Interested Observer]

80% of precincts are in in Indiana (in in IN) and Hillary leads by 4% - 30,000 votes. Lake County isn't in yet - 559 precincts including Gary - Chicago media market and lots of African-American voters.

Meanwhile, Obama will win NC by at least a quarter million votes and run up the delegate count.

[Not Anonymous Conservative Concern Troll]

Obama has the nomination in the bag. He has closed the deal.

Clinton can continue to be Mike Huickabee to Obama's John McCain, but shes irrelevant now. Her money will dry up, and no more Supers.

[Not Jack Herrity]

Heh, helps to read all the comments first - thanks for the clarification Joel. You guys do good work.

:)

NJH

[Not Anonymous Conservative Concern Troll]

Oh, and the gas tax pander and the media dumping on Obama over Wright, flag pins, and other assorted horse shit seems to have HELPED Obama.

Oh, hai there Clintonistas and Republicans. How are you feeling tonight?

[Grapes]

Jimbooooooooooooooooo Young!

Mercy Me, Jimbo when WILL you stop bitchin 'bout Right to Work?

Nobody gives a shit 'bout that dead issue.

Come 'n git it boy

She probably wasn't supported by the rank and file as she was never a street cop. She transferred to the police from animal control, or something. She had to sue the county for two promotions, too.

[James Young]

Joel Kobersteen said "In a right to work state, we are limited on how to further our agenda of protecting and improving the health, safety and security of our members."

Please don't dissemble, Mr. Kobersteen. You know as well as I that there are no more limits on a union's political speech than there are on anyone else's political speech. The only "limit" on how to "further [y]our agenda" in a Right to Work state is that you are not permitted to extract monies from firefighters who don't support your agenda to do so.

[Kobersteen]

Mr. Young,

Thank you for your observations of what I said, as incorrectly as you spun them.

I never said that Right to Work legislation puts "limits on a union's political speech." What I said is in the current environment, since we are forbidden from collectively bargaining with the management of the fire department and the County, we must make our strides politically, which we are not afraid to do.

I find it interesting how you paint OUR agenda as MY agenda when the International Association of Fire Fighters and Local 2068 has been instrumental in making YOUR Fire & Rescue Department one of the most desirable Fire & Rescue Departments in the nation to work for. The health and safety advancements of fire departments throughout the nation can be traced back to the IAFF and Local 2068. The programs that Local 2068 participates in to give back to the community touch almost every segment of the County's population.

I hardly think that MY agenda has anything to do with it.

Again, thanks for your comments.

[James Young]

Mr. Kobersteen,

You are correct: you never said "Right to Work legislation puts 'limits on a union's political speech.'" Forgive me for commenting on what was implicit in your statement. You'll forgive me for making the connection, based upon my familiarity with one of the more absurd arguments advanced by Washington State labor unions in a recent Supreme Court case (Davenport v. Washington Educ. Ass'n).

My confusion apparently arose out of your conflation of Virginia's Right to Work law (which bars only agreements which force nonmembers to pay a portion of union dues as a condition of employment) with Virginia's bar on public employee monopoly bargaining (a law of much more recent vintage than Virginia's Right to Work law). They are, of course, separate laws. And of course, it is the latter which puts "limit[s] on how to further our agenda of protecting and improving the health, safety and security of our members," to-wit, by precluding local governments from giving employee organizations a preferred status in the debate over scarce public resources through a collective-bargaining process, and/or by extinguishing individual firefighter's rights to bargain over their own terms and conditions and employments by giving a monopoly of representation to such organizations. I have represented literally hundreds of firefighters whose rights have been violated under such laws and practices, in places as varied as Lafayette, Indiana, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Cincinnati, and Bridgeport, Connecticut, all represented by IAFF affiliates. I presume that many of your colleagues are grateful that Virginia law does not provide such opportunities to IAFF affiliates here, no matter how much some union leaders dislike those laws (your comments suggest that you may be among them).

Moreover, I was not confusing the association's agenda with your personal agenda; of course, I was speaking in the corporate sense of "you" and "your," in the same way that you used the word "our."

BTW, it's not "MY" department; I only work in Fairfax County; I don't live or pay taxes there.