KAINE WRECK

HOUSE OF DELEGATES VOTE ON TIM KAINE TRANSPORTATION BILL

0 YES
98 NO

Will the last person out of the Governor's office please turn the lights off?

UPDATE: Democratic plan fails 39-59.  The countdown to the end of the term for the worst Virginia Governor since Jim Gilmore continues...

Comments

oh grow up

[Kenton]

Next update:

"In other news, former Governor Mark Warner, the second worst governor since Jim Gilmore..."

[Not Frank Hargrove]

You are such an asshole.

Why the bitterness in comments 1-3?

Why is it that when Ben has an opinion that is different from the other Democrats who post here, he gets vilified? It's his blog and these are his opinions. Is he anymore of an "asshole" than Democrat bloggers are when they trash Bush?

Ben thinks Kaine sucks. He's entitled to his opinion. What's great is that we live in a country called the United States where everyone is absolutely free to have differing opinions. If you like Kaine, you are entitled to yours.

What is it about all you partisans (on either side of the aisle) that makes you so touchy when someone who agrees with you more often than not, does not toe every inch of your line? Sometimes I wonder if some of you would even try to defend Blagojevich if you were living in Illinois.

6:05....because Ben's comments have nothing to do with the topic or substance. It's all because Kaine endorsed Connolly and nnot his gal Leslie Byrne. That's all this is about and nothing more. There was nary a negative word about Kaine on here until his dastardly endorsement of Gerry.

In other news, will Ben ever remove the picture of Leslie?

I'm curious. What was the political motivation for Kaine to endorse Connolly anyway? Everyone with a pulse on that race knew he was the favorite, knew he was up in the polls. What was the political logic for the endorsement?

I'm honestly curious.

They've worked closely together on many issues, is my guess, and because Webb endorsed Byrne, so it equaled it out. Not a big deal...endorsements happen all the time, but Ben now hates Kaine with all his heart and might.

But as 6:16 pointed out Gerry won easily and in a landslide, so Kaine's endorsement didn't really do anything. Endorsements usually don't do anything, anyway...they are overrated. They only guarantee one vote -- that of the endorser. And maybe his/her spouse. For example, the Kennedy clan didn't help Obama in Massachusetts.

[Not a fan of NLS]

From the Richmond Times Dispatch "Del. Clifford Athey, R-Warrenton, sought to substitute Kaine's bill for Saslaw's bill on the House floor. Delegates voted down that effort 98-0. Democrats said they objected to the procedural maneuver, not the substance of Kaine's bill."

[Hans Bader]

There's room for a compromise.

Strip out the taxes proposed by the state senate except for some of its gas tax increase, since the gas tax properly makes people who use the roads pay for them.

Then add in some of the (regional) fees and taxes proposed by delegates, NOT including the awful grantor's tax, which drives down home values, harms the economy, and reduces local property tax collections.

Combine modest increases in state gas tax with modest increases in regional taxes/fees -- not including the awful grantor's tax, which should never be used as a way to pay for transportation, because it fails to make out-of-state motorists pay anything for using state roads, even as it burdens homeowners of modest means who seldom even use the roads.

6:13...every decision a politician makes, and every vote they take, has the potential to make someone happy or someone mad.

It may be that Ben chose to look past what he may have otherwise felt were failings of Kaine prior to the Connolly situation. Perhaps the Connolly situation has caused him to no longer be silent on other issues that relate to Kaine.

I don't pretend to be able to read Ben's mind. That being said, personally I do think that Kaine's governorship has not been a major success and that was reflected in today's vote. And I would further think that if you are someone who views the Kaine governorship skeptically, today's action would be chalked up as a failure.

Kaine has definitely been a seat-warming, mediocre, run-of-the-mill Governor. I wouldn't call him terribly bad or good either way.

[David Englin]

Ben,

The Governor's initial bill was a starting point, not an end point. Democrats (including the Governor, and with the help of his leadership) came to a unified solution: Saslaw's bill minus the gas tax, which would have delivered significant transportation funds while also exempting food and medicine from any sales tax increase and reducing the current sales tax on food by 1/2% (roughly $85 million/year in food tax relief). By resurrecting the initial bill, House Republicans were trying to set the clock back several days, which was nothing but political gamesmanship considering that they knew there was a consensus solution also on the table. Our goal was to get past that initial bill and have the opportunity to put forward the Democratic consensus bill.

I was a bit surprised that House Republicans ultimately let us amend Saslaw's bill to turn it into the Democratic consensus bill, and it was really a shame that they then decided to kill the consensus bill.

[Not on Pressing Personal Business]

Where's Caputo today while you are considering all this important legislation?

Del. Englin:

Was Senator Saslaw unified with you on stripping out the gas tax? Somehow I suspect he is one Democrat who might object.

And while the bill might have been a consensus Democrat bill, it would appear it was not a consensus House bill which would be more useful if anyone actually wanted it to pass.

Actually, while we are on this subject, I would be curious if you could find anything in the current budget that is of lower priority than transportation. If so, would you support cutting those other programs and shifting the money to transportation? Right now, things like the Science Musuem of Virginia are being funded while transportation is being neglected. Would you agree that it is more important to shift money in the budget away from non-core functions of government such as state-run museums and non-state agencies and use that for transportation? Aren't roads a higher priority than a collection of Faberge objects in a museum in Richmond? If there is to be no agreement on new revenues, shouldn't existing priorities be reconsidered?

[dems4Husseindems]

8:13 - If there's a case to be made that the cosmetic cuts you advocate will provide the revenue needed for transportation, please tell.

[Delegate Tim Hugo]

No. The Democrats did not want to vote on the bill because it was bad for Northern Virginia.

No matter what you think of his positions, Senator Saslaw is direct and straightforward. When asked in House Rules Committee why no Democrats in the Senate had introduced Governor Kaine's transportation bill, he stated that it was not a good deal for Northern Virginia.

Further, in the press, Senator Saslaw stated that "the problem is, Northern Virginia generates more of the grantor’s tax than any other region in the state……they’re not willing to raise a tax that will hit the region disproportionately and then share it with the rest of the state."

Governor Kaine sent all the Northern Virginia money to Richmond with very little coming back!!! This is a Kaine Wreck!!

Also, as I sit here on the House floor, any Democratic member can ask for Governor Kaine's transportation bill to be considered.

None have........because Kaine's transportation bill is a slap in the face to Northern Virginian taxpayers.

[Not Hussein (formerly Not Ben)]

This has been mentioned before, at least once by me, but even if he was a great governor, he would still be "the worst Virginia Governor since Jim Gilmore" if he wasn't a better governor than Mark Warner.

Dems4Hussein:

I could list a ton of cuts. Would it add up to a $1 billion? No. But it might be $200 million which means we need a lot less money to close the gap.

[David Englin]

Tim - You're engaged in a debate from two weeks ago. The consensus Democratic plan would have passed the Senate (with Saslaw's vote, Anon. 8:13 p.m.) and would have done the job we were sent here to do.

[Martin Lomasney]

Any revenue plan that doesn't generate at least $1 billion per years is window dressing and a political fig leaf.

The grantors' tax has no impact on real estate values and is paid disproportionately by commercial land owners recording leases and by developers which we should all be inclined to support.

9:18...The grantors' tax has a major impact on the seller's bottomline. Further, if you are speaking of builders when you state developers, you haven't read a builders contract. In all the years I sold real estate, there was not a builder's new home contract that did not transfer the grantors' tax on to the purchaser One representing the purchaser could go back and forth on other issues,but the purchaser paying the grantors' tax was set in concrete.
The issue I have is while corporate and the federal gov't will pay closing costs for employees being relocated, the members of the military get no reimbursement at all whether buying or selling
Many members of the military bought during the height of the market; they are now selling in a very different market. Adding this additional cost to them is wrong. Obviously, this applies to all sellers, but when you think about it, those selling and subject to the grantors' tax are moving and in many cases out of state.
I can only assume the logic is if you are moving, you won't be voting in Va.

d4d,
Your “cosmetic” argument is typical of the liberal excuses put forth to raise taxes. It is typical of the “we won’t see product for years” argument used against drilling for oil. If we never begin, we will never finish any project. Using your argument, even if we had the money for roads “why begin to build” because it will take years to finish. It is rather silly.

I believe that we should put the increases in tax revenues already being realized towards transportation and also creating a fund that can not be “raided” for other purposes.
The increases in spending in the past decade is ridiculous. I wish my paycheck had increased as much. it has not and I don’t have the money to keep giving because our governor can not make a simple decision to prioritize transportation and freeze spending elsewhere. I am also rather tired of Nova being viewed as the “rich uncle” for the entire commonwealth.

its funny to me - its mostly the Dems that are saying we are in a transportation crisis, but i sat in the gallery in the house today and i watched jen mcclellan & adam ebbin play on facebook during critical transporation funding discussions. can we say hypocrites??? the whole gallery was laughing watching them on there. this is what we elect our delegates to do?? its one thing to get on facebook on their personal time, but to do it in the chamber??? pathetic.

[charlie]

Now this is interesting:

http://baconsrebellion.blogspot.com/2008/07/capital-beltway-hot-lane-deal-did.html

The beltway lexus lane deal has express provisions to make sure private companies benefit if congestion decreases...

[Spank That Donkey]

Ben:
Now you know I was with you right up until you talked some trash on the Governor who is most hated for delivering the largest and longest last tax cut in Virginia History!

$6.9 Billion dollars in direct tax relief to the citizens of Virginia since 1999..

Don't like it? Pay it back... there's a fund, go for it...

[Ian Jordan]

Who is really surprised. Ben has been throwing a month long temper tantrum since Tim Kaine made the smart move to ignore Leslie "The Loser" Byrne. Get over it. Stop Bitching. MOVE ON.

[Martin Lomasney]

Hey broker #9:55, your state association supported the increase in the grantors tax because their research proved you assertions to be false.

When the developer buys the land from the owner, the developer pays the grantors tax. When the builder buys the lot from the developer, the developer pays the grantors tax.

When the commercial landlord records the memorandum of lease, the tenant pays the grantors tax.

But you already knew that because your an expert in these matters.

BTW, the name is MARTIN LOMASNEY. If I wanted to be referred to as a number, I would have taken a role in a George Lucas student film project, nit wit.

12:19
I believe the statement was that these fees get pushed off on others. Part of negotiations in these matters and not unusual. Would you not agree from your experience?. Further, wtf do we need to increase fees for when revenues are increasing plenty fast enough to put money into transportation? We need to lose the liberal tax,tax,tas, mindset. Sometimes enough is enough and we have hit those times.

[Alex P. Keaton]

Wait so Howell found a tax increase he didn't like???? Son of a monkey's uncle yesterday was a GOOD day.

[Martin Lomasney]

WTF 9:55 broker, don't you sleep @ 3:52 am like normal people.

Exactly which revenue is increasing @$1 billion per year in Va.

Va's tax burden is among the lowest in the nation. Among the fewer that are lower: Mississippi and Arkansas. Should Va have an educational system equal to Ark and a highway system equal to Ms.

Virginia has never spent enough on either. Read Dominion of Memories. We are still paying the consequences for 200 years of those mistakes.

[JMU Duke]

A "Kaine wreck???"

What is it with GOP legislators and dumbass catch phrases?

"Drill here. Drill Now. Baloney."

And they wonder why they continue to hemorrhage seats at every level.

It is not just the GOP with dopey catch phrases and slogans. "McSame?"

Politicians have come to the conclusion that it is more important to be clever and witty than it is to actually try and communicate honestly.

So Kaine called a Special Session (@ $20K per day) to press for his bill that he knew had no chance, and without anything else close to a deal? So Kaine and other Dems refused to consider taking even one penny from other programs (including waste and partisan boondoggles) or the General Fund?

What a surprise. These are the same folks who - when they last controlled the GA - annually expropriated one-third of NoVa gas taxes for Downstate projects, and who still send NoVa very little of our schools money. These are folks in the same Party as the Arlingtonians and Alexandrians who blocked Wilson Bridge reconstruction for more than a year and still oppose widening I66. Meanwhile, NoVa GA Dems wring their hands and blame "Richmond" rather than their own local and Downstate partisans.

One more time 12:18 a/k/a Marty....Read a builder's contract. the Grantor's tax is to be paid by the purchaser. NVAR pushed this against the recommendation of their own finance committee. The reason was they love Tom Davis. This increase in the Grantor's tax was JMDD idea. NVAR transferred the "love" and supported this increase.
I was sound asleep at 3:52..that wasn't my post.

[Not Bob Holsworth]

This special session was a lose-lose for just about everyone.

Tim Kaine: The Governor looks like an idiot after this. Called a special session with a plan almost no one is bought in on and one he knows won’t get a majority in the House. Went around the state on an ineffective town hall tour that reached the faithful but had no impact--or even awareness--among the masses. Another signature policy goal ends up in the trash heap. He'll blame the House for blocking him, but what did he give the House that they could live with? Politics is a two-way street, Tim, not your way or the highway. Besides, when it is YOUR special session, you have an obligation to get something that everyone can live with, otherwise it just comes across as political. Is that really the sort of post-partisanship that Barack Obama wants to portray?

Dick Saslaw: No one was more out of touch this time then Saslaw. Even if his arguments for the gas tax hike were right on a policy basis--and that’s not entirely certain--he picked the wrong time to go for it. He came across as utterly deaf to both the political environment and to the realities of every day voters.

NoVA legislators: Actually these guys had no way to win. Hike taxes for transportation? Well, you raise taxes, something that is never popular AND even if you do, it will still be years, if not decades, before the money turns into completed roads. Votes expect fixes they can see and this would not have been it. On the other hand, coming home with nothing is not good either.

Ward Armstrong and Brian Moran: Totally outmaneuvered and outplayed by the House GOP leadership, and have been since they gained control of the House Democrat caucus. They carry the taxes, take the hits (along with most of their caucus) and have nothing to show for it.

House Democrats: Another vote for higher taxes goes on the board. Conservative caucus members like Johnson and Joannou run the other way. NoVA members go home and say, “it’s not my fault” once more time rather than get something they can hang their hats on. They keep taking bad votes and/or have nothing to show for their time in Richmond. Caputo, Poisson and Nichols need to bring more back home than just voting for higher taxes contained in bills that fail, if they want to stay in the House.

Senate Democrats: Putting freshman in marginal districts like John Miller, Ralph Northam and George Barker on the board for higher taxes and then getting nothing for their wounds is not going to help matters. Mary Margaret and Janet better be real generous to them in redistricting. And does this group have an answer for ANYTHING that does not include higher taxes?

Senate Republicans: For most of this caucus, they spent years voting for higher tax after higher tax. Now, in the minority, they have found religion and stood together against taxes. Was this a heartfelt conversion or simply partisan politics? Many of the members may now be seen as flip-floppers. Worse, Senate Republicans were all but missing from the debate. No serious plan offered and silence in the media. Of the four caucuses and the Governor, this was the one group no one seemed to hear from in the press or in the districts. Proving they can vote as a bloc of 19 is a step forward, but they need to be a lot more aggressive in taking the fight to the majority than just voting together and then standing all but mute, if they hope to return to the majority.

House GOP: Opposed higher taxes in a bad economy, which helps overall, but the last GOP delegates standing north of the Occoquan are going to feel the heat for coming home empty-handed. And after passing pork-laden budget after pork-laden budget, it is disappointing they did not walk the walk in terms of creating priorities in the budget and find more transportation money by cutting non-core services, of which the budget has many. Also, this issue now continues to hang around to dominate the next session. Look for another battle in the winter.

The Pavement Gang: The road industry, which stood to make billions from a solution, was once again MIA. As with previous efforts on transportation, they made no serious nor effective effort to develop grassroots support for any proposal. Instead, they chose to play it safe again by backing anything that would give them more money without regard for what it was, while doing nothing to persuade the public in most, if not all, of the Commonwealth to get behind doing something for transportation. They wanted to reap the bucks but didn't help with the heavy lifting and, in doing so, put allies in the Assembly on the board voting for plans that could hurt them electorally while sitting on the sidelines doing nothing to help them. The road industry proves once again that it’s not the group you want covering your back in a legislative fire fight.

The only winner is Bill Howell. Unlike 2004, he held his caucus together and blocked higher taxes. Had this not happened, the caucus, in all likelihood, would’ve tossed him out. This probably secures his reign through next year's election.

One other possible winner is Delegate Jeff Frederick’s urologist. His fine work ensured that Jeff didn’t have to leave the floor in the middle of a key vote on transportation this time due to an urgent bladder or other reason.

[Ian Jordan]

Whats the matter Ben, don't like others who point out your ridiculousness?

[Martin Lomasney]

10:22 I've written builders contracts

I also collected the grantors tax from the developer when he sold to the builder

and from the landowner who sold to the developer

and from the commercial landlord who rented to the commercial tenant

And those checks to the Commonwealth were bigger than the ones from 50-100 individual house sales.

There is no study demonstrating that the grantors tax of Va has any impact on sales price. None.

If you insist on not using a webname, you risk having your posts confused with others. Your choice.

martin,
"There is no study demonstrating that the grantors tax of Va has any impact on sales price. None."

Do you find it necessary to have a study on something that should be "common sense"?

If someone is paying the amounts that you suggest they are not just “sucking up” this cost. ANY business person, with a strong desire to stay in business, knows that these "costs" are passed along to the consumer. I don’t know of any “study” that shows oil prices raise the cost of consumer goods, there is just a common sense “given” that this is the case.

If you insist on posting ill thought comments you risk having your posts discounted as irrelevant.
Your choice

[Martin Lomasney]

I expect "common sense" arguments to make common sense. I can't pass every cost increase along to my customers because they'll go to some other vendor. Many times the vendors reaction to a marginal (and the grantors tax is certainly that) cost increase is to absorb the cost as slightly reduced, though still extremely rewarding, profits.