The GOP War On Voting

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[Sam]

Remember how Virgil Goode was going to get his 2008 loss thrown out when he showed proof of all those UVA students who voted absentee at home as well as voted in person in the 5th?

Yeah, that fizzled out with every other Republican claim of voter fraud. There's no evidence, but boy can we make people scared of it. And felons - we don't like felons.

[kelley in virginia]

its not just UVA, but many colleges communities where the students vote at that community & often vote in their hometown.

this can be tracked, but only after votes are cast. then what a clusterfark it would be.

the obvious answer is a computerized system where, when I vote in precinct X, then my name, ID etc is counted & this same identity can not vote again.

but this would cost money to implement.

[kelley in virginia]

there is voter fraud everywhere.

at several courthouses in Southern Virginia, the clerk gets a call from a nursing home "Mrs. Jane Doe is 95 years old & has been in a coma for 2 years. Why did she get a jury summons?" (which is dependent on voter registration & she had only just registered in 2008).

someone registered Mrs Jane Doe. Mrs. Jane Doe voted absentee. This happened in 2008.

[A Voter]

LOL, this article is hilarious... yes, that EVIL GOP only wants REGISTERED VOTERS who have an ID to vote.

So, having an ID (and proving that you are who you say you are, on election day) is now a GOP ploy to "significantly dampen the Democratic turnout"... really!?

It's sad that Democrats believe that it hurts their election chances when people are asked to simply show that they are who they say they are when they vote.

[Sam]

kelley- no, it doesn't frequently happen. Isolated individual cases are ocassionally found, but systematically it just isn't true. Goode's campaign investigated thousands of students after 2008, and did not find even one who had also voted in their hometown. Not one.

A Voter - So, it's better to just disenfranchise people who don't have IDs (yes, there are many of them)?

[change]

The main points in this article are that voters need to prove who they are when they register and vote.
HOW ARCANE and ABUSIVE…. HOW CAN ANYONE OBTAIN A PHOTO ID IN THIS BACKWARD YEAR OF 2011.
Don’t these poor old folks and poor minorities need ID when they cash their SS or welfare checks?
The flip side is to let anyone vote with no proof of eligibility, age, citizenship etc… is that really what liberals want?
Anyone caring enough to cast a vote should have no problem with proving who they are when they do so.

[NotJohnSMosby]

Republicans feel that voting is a privilege. Democrats feel that voting is a right.

Not every citizen has a photo ID. If you deny someone the ability to vote because they do not have a photo ID - which, if I understand the Republican argument on health care, is not a legal mandate that any government can impose on a citizen - then you are violating their Constitutional right to vote.

[change]

Pure genius mosby, maybe we can have folk dip their finger in ink to help stop them from voting more than once.

In November I might use your name to vote, when you get there and they say “sorry” will you feel disenfranchised?

Getting a photo ID is not rocket science. One has all year to get one.

Ahh the ignorance of the uber-libs.

[kelley in virginia]

sam, I beg to differ with you. I have no knowledge about Goode, but there are instances where a student will vote at their school community, then vote absentee. this crosses party lines too.

[kelley in virginia]

there is no legal mandate to get a photo ID. but you must prove that you are a resident of a particular precinct before you vote there. If one has another way to prove it (some have used telephone bills or light bills)--have at it.

[Old Harry]

@ SAm,

You are just wrong. Goode did not investigate all the students, over 5,500, who registered in 2008 for voting in Virginia and other states. What was done was to look at at some places that multiple persons listed as home addresses and there were many who listed them sleeves as living in academic buildings, clearly fraudulent. No complaints were filed.

Tom Perriello did go to court to deny servicemen who, because their local electoral board had sent ballots out late, were denied the right to count their votes. That case was decided statewide in favor of coating those ballots, but they were not counted in the 5th District election.

[Republicans Suck]

kelley in virginia continues to demonstrate why you should never listen to her about anything.

[frankoanderson]

Did Florida break off and fall into the ocean as a result of ex-felons being allowed to vote? Was there a rash of murders committed by paper cuts from voter registration cards?

What is the justification for overturning Gov. Crist's previous order restoring rights to nonviolent offenders who served their time?

[James Young]

Another headline confusing "voting" with "voter fraud."

[NotJohnSMosby]

Yes, Republicans lose elections because of voter fraud. It couldn't be for any other reason - such as a majority of people wanting someone better to represent them.

[Rtwng Extrmst]

What a piece of crap! And that passes for journalism? RS needs to get serious about their reporting.

[Cool_Arrow]

@ Kelley -

Can you give us any SPECIFIC examples of voter fraud. You have mentioned possible instances but do you have any instances of systematic voter fraud?

[Glen Tomkins]

The multiple residence scenario, while a possible source of scattered stolen votes (counties don't clean up their rolls on anything near a real-time basis), has never been shown to have happened systematically, though it would be easy to demonstrate if it had happened.

A voter has to claim to be somebody who's on the rolls for that precinct in order to be allowed to vote. That name gets scratched off the list of registered voters. The whole list of names of people who voted is a matter of public record. Both major parties acquire those lists of registered voters who voted, and for every election.

If there were any question of people voting both at their parents' residence and at their university residence, it would be a simple matter to search the database of who voted in any given election for duplicate names. The Rs are never able to produce any significant number of such duplicates, despite their possession of the database and functional computers capable of doing the searches.

[Glen Tomkins]

The imposter voter scenario, the possiblility that voter ID laws are supposed to protect us from, of people voting multiple times by pretending to be a registered voter or voters, is even less workable.

For this scenario to work, you have to, in your choice of which voters to impersonate, always happen to choose voters who will not actually vote that election. Duplicates get you into trouble.

If you show up at a precinct and try to vote as somebody you aren't, you run the risk that this person has already voted. Claim to be this person, and you stand an excellent chance of arrest on the spot. Even if voting officials are not alert enough, or the police not readily available enough, for an arrest to happen the first time this occurs, you can bet that that first occurrence on any election day will quickly result in all polling places being alerted, and police sent to all of them. And, of course, if you're going to steal an election this way, you have to do this hundreds, or thousands, or tens of thousands of times.

The other duplication possibility is that the voter being impersonated will show show up later in the day to vote. This may not be as immediately catastrophic for the indvidual member of the conspiracy who did the impersonation, but it will sink the conspiracy. The election officials will know that a vote has been stolen. The fact of an attempt to steal at least one vote will be proven.
Again, such a conspiracy needs hundreds to thousands of stolen votes if it's to work. That would involve, for each stolen election, scores to hundreds of such discovered, proven, cases of vote-stealing -- legitimate voters who show up to vote, only to find their names already crossed off because some vote stealer got there ahead of them.

Can any of you name even one such case, ever?

If not, please stop pretending that voter ID laws are about anything but denying the franchise to people who don't own cars.

[Edthemanva]

remember in VA all you need to do is sign an oath that you r who u r under penalty of law....
no one really cares about this issue though. I remember when VA passed the law. All the D's I know supported the law and saw no racism. Only the "elites" give a damn.

[tmtfairfax]

How come Rhode Island legislature passed legislation requiring an ID for voting if this is an R vs. D issue? Gee I wonder which political party is in control of both houses of the Rhode Island legislature! Rational people of both political parties understand that, in today's world, photo IDs are necessary to demonstrate proof of identity and to protect the legitimacy of the electoral process and to avoid diluting the votes of eligible citizens.

[kelley in virginia]

yes i have instances. students go to college. they establish a residency there. they get caught up in the pre-election campaigning so they register--after all, they left home 1, 2, 3 or 4 years ago so they don't have any political ties to their hometown. They vote in locality of their college.

a good campaign from home sends an absentee ballot to the student. I know students who have voted for national race at one location & local race at another. or voted for the same candidates twice.

this is especially problematic when the student came from out of state. there is virtually no way to check cross-state voting.

this is hard to flush out & virtually impossible to discover before the votes are cast. cross-checking registrations before election day is the best way at this time.

[kelley in virginia]

i know lots of people who have NEVER had drivers' licenses who have picture IDs.

[Noticed]

1. If you can't afford a picture ID you can get one for free.

2. Let's look at the other side: has anyone been denied the right to vote because they couldn't get an ID?

3. Minnesota and Wisconsin have been good examples of voter fraud making a difference in elections. They have (or in the case of Wisconsin, had) laws allowing people to register to vote on election day. All that was needed was a precinct resident to "vouch" for that person. In the 2004 election, several thousand fraudulent votes were cast in Wisconsin and possibly cost Bush that state. The same types of laws probably made the difference in the U.S. Senate race in Minnesota.

4. OK, I'll concede that these kinds of laws willmake it difficult for Democrats to get the dead vote.

[Cool_Arrow]

@ Kelley - again you are going into a hypothetical situation which I agree with you it COULD happen.

You haven't shown an instance where it has happened rampantly.

Please show me evidence that this is a rampant problem.

[Steve Vaughan]

Republicans are very concerned with people stealing elections ...in a way elections never have been stolen, and can't be.

Voting fake voters, or voters voting multiple times, is as rare as hens' teeth and you can't steal an election that way. It's too complicated, it requires too many people, it's too easy to see.

However, Republicans are very unconcerned about the way elections can actually be stolen, by the people who count the votes. That's where you can affect the mass of votes you need to steal an election.

Where's the Republian demand for mandating a paper trail for computer voting systems to insure an honest count?

Until I see that, I have to believe that their efforts are more in order to suppress the vote than to insure its accuracy.

[Ralph]

@Noticed has a bunch of possiblys and maybes:

"Several thousand fraudulent votes were cast in Wisconsin and possibly cost Bush that state. The same types of laws probably made the difference in the U.S. Senate race in Minnesota."

Still waiting for the evidence of this.

[Let's Be Free]

From my youth, I am reminded of a mosaic of pictures plastered on the front page of the Chicago Tribune, showing the vacant lots where registered Chitown voters lived who had voted in their Daley machine alderman the day before. Let's hear it for everyone who wants to bring Chicago machine politics to Northern Virginia. More hope and change for the true believers.

[NotJohnSMosby]

So, not one of the Republicans on here can site a court case where anyone - a single person - has been accused, prosecuted and convicted of illegally voting in an election. But, they can all spout conspiracy theories that make it sound that every election a Democrat wins is somehow stolen from god's chosen candidate.

If we want to discuss stolen elections, the only example I can really come up with happened in 2000. Maybe you heard about it, and it wasn't the Democrats stealing anything that year.

[Mr. Jefferson]

@NJSM:

A quick google turns up (at least):

Lessadolla Sowers
Amy Little
Daniel Hausman
Yolanda Hippensteele

[NotJohnSMosby]

Thanks Jefferson, so two cases of voter fraud by four people for a total of a whopping 13 votes. Wow, that really swung the election, especially in Mississippi. From this extensive case history, it's clearly a nationwide problem that clearly swings elections to Democrats on a regular basis.

[Andrew]

You'd think that we'd at least see some links to instances of proven voter fraud in these comments and not just hypotheticals and the usual "Dems are scum so they must be cheating" crap.

[Andrew]

"From my youth, I am reminded of a mosaic of pictures plastered on the front page of the Chicago Tribune, showing the vacant lots where registered Chitown voters lived who had voted in their Daley machine alderman the day before. Let's hear it for everyone who wants to bring Chicago machine politics to Northern Virginia. More hope and change for the true believers."

So has this happened under the current system or any past system in Virginia, or is this just more of the same "Dems are scum so they must be cheating" bunk? Come on now, don't bring your weaksauce.

[cageyd]

I suggest that all of you who deny there is a problem and believe that requiring a photo ID to vote is suppressing the vote should read the article in the August 29 issue of National Review on this subject written by someone who knows what he is talking about and has presented the facts for all to see. It is not a pretty picture and it uses actual facts to refute the Rolling Stone article. Maybe I am old fashioned but I would like to believe that every vote in every election would be made by a US Citizen who can and will prove that he is who he says he is.

Rolling Stone uses the old canard that there are a small number of convictions for voter fraud and therefore nothing should be done. Is it old-fashioned to believe that zero-tolerance for fraud is the only approach to be taken in a nation of laws? Too many elections are decided by a small number of votes for fraud to be ignored. For example, in 2005 in the Virginia Attorney General race, Bob McDonnell defeated Creigh Deeds by precisely 323 votes out of 1,941,499 votes cast or 0.00017%. Or perhaps in the 2010 Senate race in Minnesota where Al Franken defeated Norm Coleman by 225 votes out of 2,424,637 votes cast or 0.00009%. These are meaningful statistics affecting election results. Small numbers of convictions for voter fraud only indicates the difficulty in detecting and proving fraud and is meaningless in measuring the extent of voter fraud.

I would also like to suggest that people become familiar with Article 24.2 of the Code of Virginia - Election Law to find out exactly what is required in Virginia to register to vote and then to vote. It is not difficult to envision a number of ways ineligible voters can actually register and then vote in elections.

[Sam]

cageyd-

hypothetical question for you. In a representative democracy, is it worse for 5 improper votes to be cast, or 200 properly eligible voters to be prevented from voting?

All the "evidence" Republicans present still seems to show that's about the ratio. If you ask me, there should be zero tolerance for either - no fake votes allowed, no person who should be allowed to vote stopped from voting. But, it seems Republicans would rather stop 200 people from voting, just to stop 5 improper votes. For me, I'd much rather have those 200 voters, making our democracy as representative as possible, and drowning out those 5 fake votes.

Hell, why don't we just ban voting altogether? That would really cut down on voter fraud.

[NotJohnSMosby]

Sam, you pretty much summed it up. It's just another example of Republican inability to accept the demographic and cultural changes happening in the United States. The Republican Party is getting older and whiter, which does not bode well for the long-term prospects for the Republican Party.

Most of this teabagger crap seems to, to me, to be a final, last-ditch attempt to stop roll back the clock to some past time - the 1950s South? the 1910s? The Robber Baron Age in the late 19th century? Who knows, but it's clear that to Republicans, the future is the past.

[tmtfairfax]

So what about Rhode Island? Why did the legislature controlled by Democrats enact a law that requires photo ID to vote?

[A Voter]

I just LOVE watching liberals go crazy over the idea of only proven REGISTERED VOTERS voting in an election...

And then acting like it's a conspiracy to boot!

Too funny.

[change]

Please do not confuse NJSM by using facts in your argument, it screws up his baseless rants.
He has been proven wrong and then wants to change the argument from “none” to “not enough” (typical liberal tactic).
He wants more “concrete” proof like Obama et al’s proof of having “saved” millions of jobs and “saved” our economy with their mindless spending sprees and giveaways to their rich corporate fat cat buddies.

Maybe the genius that is NJSM or Sam could tell us how many “voters” are unable to obtain an ID and how those fine upstanding citizens of the US of A are able to cash checks, buy booze, obtain healthcare etc… ?
The last time I went to the doctor or hospital they asked for ID, the last time I went to the bank they needed ID, the last time I went to the ABC store they asked for ID.

How do these forgotten folk get work/welfare/SS/medicare/unemployment or any other of the wonderful government bene’s without ID (oops, never mind work Obambi and his democrat minions have made them unemployed)?

[Bubby Hussein, Hillbilly Sheikh]

We've all witnessed election fraud: January 2001 when the US Supreme Court appointed George Walker Bush to the Presidency (in lieu of the legitimate winner). That's how the rightwing rolls - Party over Country.

[NotJohnSMosby]

So, how did this country operate before there were drivers licenses? Did George Washington have to show a painting of himself when he went to vote?

Oh yeah, it was easier when it was just landowning white males voting. Once the women and blacks and browns and every other citizen who isn't a bible-thumping white decided to vote, suddenly you need to prove your Constitutional rights.

[change]

Why do liberals get so angry when they are wrong on an issue? Then always turn to the race card.
So predictable…

Next it will all be Bush’s fault…

[Cool_Arrow]

@ Kelley still waiting for some evidence from you about rampant voter frauds.

[Matt Genkinger]

The Second Amendment of the Constitution guarantees that I have the right to keep and bear arms. Yet every time I purchase a firearm I have to present valid ID and wait 3-5 business days before picking up my firearm. Am I disenfranchised? Um, no. It makes sense. While I don't think the government should know what firearms I own and where I live, I think that so long as I have to go through that nutroll in order to exercise my constitutional right, I should have to do the same to exercise my privilege of voting. Oh, and if I'm convicted of a felony, I lose those rights and privileges because I can no longer be trusted to make good decisions. See how that works? There must be consequences for your actions, and if you so choose to violate someone else's inalienable rights, you should lose yours.

[Bubby Hussein, Hillbilly Sheikh]

Wrong Matt, in Virginia all you have to do to buy a firearm is attend a gun show and buy one from a private owner. Even if you are a felon!

here is your instructional video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baPgr_tw79Q

Now, what was your point?

[NotJohnSMosby]

His point seems to be that if you need to prove you're not a felon in order to buy a gun from a store, then you should do the same when you go to vote. Because voting and buying Glocks are really the same thing, and if you can't buy a gun then you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Or some rambling bullshit along those lines, it was hard to tell.

So in summation, Democrats believe that someone who is registered to vote - and has gone through the process to register, where identity verification is needed - shouldn't have to show a photo ID that they may not own when they go to vote.

Republicans feel that every good citizen should have a photo ID on them at all times, regardless if they are 90 years old and haven't driven in decades or live in a city where they haven't driven in their entire life, and that they should hand that ID over to pretty much anyone who asks for it, but in this case, just poll workers on election days. Because, since all god-fearing, America-loving teabaggers have ID, everyone should have one, even though there is no law anywhere that mandates that someone needs to have a photo ID at all.

[Bubby Hussein, Hillbilly Sheikh]

Nah,all this "Voter Fraud" yipyap is just the latest wingnut bullshit cover for their class warfare...now that poll taxes, Jim Crow, and landed gentry have gone the way of the buggy whip.

"Registering the Poor to Vote is Un-American", say's Matthew Vadum.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/09/registering_the_poor_to_vote_is_un-american.html

[Edthemanva]

When the Hon. Moon committed voting fraud by voting twice...they figured he can hardly speak English so he must of been confused about the election laws. They gave him a pass!

[change]

NJSM’s last post makes me wonder how he feels qualified to call anyone’s writings “rambling bullshit”.

I see that he also chooses not to answer the simple question posed to him earlier:
“How do these forgotten folk get work/welfare/SS/medicare/unemployment or any other of the wonderful government bene’s without ID” ?

I also wonder if he believes it to be OK for armed thugs (like the “new” black panthers) to intimidate voters as they did in 2008 (with no consequence from Obambi’s justice department)?

Will these be answered?
I expect not, but I do expect more of HIS own ”rambling bullshit…”

[Let's Be Free]

To see how much fraud there is in the election process one need to look no further than petitions where there is an opportunity to look up and verify information that is volunteered by people who claim to be registered voters. An very large percentage of challenged signatures are rejected. Problem with voting is that there is no opportunity to validate or investigate after the fact. The only opportunity is to positively identify voters in real time. Union funded petitions in Blue Arlington last year were fraught with fraud.

[cheap jerseys]

the obvious answer is a computerized system where, when I vote in precinct X, then my name, ID etc is counted & this same identity can not vote again.

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[cheap jerseys]

Roanoke City and Roanoke County should put a scare into his campaign. He was running against a Tea Party type with no experience in office. John Edwards is an excellent campaigner. Plus, there is a Democratic candidate for the 17th House district, Freeda Cathcart, who is especially good in grassroots organizing. They have 10 overlapping precincts. If the vote turns out in the Roanoke Valley, Nutter is toast. I agree with your assessment of "likely Democratic."