Pat Mullins Makes (Bad) History

Stunning news out of the Republican Party of Virginia over the last 48 hours, as numerous GOP Presidential candidates (Newt Gingrich, Rick Perry, Michelle Bachmann, Jon Huntsman and Rick Santorum) all fail to make the Virginia Primary Ballot.

Voters will now have a choice between Mitt Romney and Ron Paul.

Getting all of the leading GOP candidates on the ballot is a responsibility of the state Republican party when they elect to have a statewide primary instead of a caucus/convention system. Now Pat Mullins as RPV Chairman has made a mockery of his own Presidential primary.

Instead, over ten thousand people will need to be hired at taxpayer expense to run a primary that only includes Mitt Romney and Ron Paul.  The cost to taxpayers will be well over $2,000,000, maybe even more.

Now the question turns to what supporters of other GOP candidates will do.  Or Democrats.  Will the "stop Romney" movement result in a Ron Paul Revolution in Virginia?

Stay tuned.

Comments

[Not Mame Reilly]

This is a total embarrassment to the RPV.

The Democratic Party routinely circulates petitions for all campaigns all around the state for anyone interested in running.

The VA GOP either has no infrastructure, no organizational skills, or is so highly fractured and disenchanted with its choices, they are simply not motivated to do anything.

In 2007-2008, people were falling over themselves to work for Obama & Hillary at this point.

This is not a good sign for the GOP's prospects in VA at all. McDonnell is the leader of the RPV. It's an embarrassment to him. The GOP should do all it can to ensure a robust primary.

If I were on the RPV Central Committee, I'd be calling for Mullins' head and demanding an explanation from the Governor.

[Blue Virginia]

A few candidates who managed to get on the ballot in previous years:

Keyes, Bauer, Bush, McCain, Forbes, Thompson, Huckabee, Giuliani,Al Sharpton, Kerry, Clark, Edwards, Dean, Lieberman, Kucinich, Gephardt, and even not-really-a-Democrat Lyndon Larouche.

[Ronald]

I thought petitions were never checked unless you were running against the party establishment... I thought this held true for both parties.

[Nonsense]

Getting a candidate on the ballot is the responsibility of the candidate's campaign, not the state party. The state party shouldn't be circulating petitions for any presidential candidate, any more than it should be circulating petitions for any gubernatorial or statewide candidate. This is just a lame excuse to make up an attack on RPV. Want to know how well the Republican Party is organized in Virginia? Try looking at how many Democrats are governor, lieutenant governor, or attorney general. Try looking at how many chambers of the General Assembly they control.

[Not Larry Sabato]

Actually Nonsense, RPV decides whether to have a primary or a caucus/convention process. Once they decide to have a primary they have a responsibility to the taxpayers to ensure their tax dollars are not wasted in this kind of fiasco.

[GretchenLaskas]

What this tells me is that evangelicals, and perhaps in the case of Gingrich, Catholics, are not enthused. Think about it -- all you need is one person in a church to collect signatures for you. One afternoon, and it's pretty easy to get 100+. (You know this is how Huckabee did it 4 years ago.) But none of the super religiously minded candidates were able to find people to do this.

[Matt]

I agree entirely with Ben here. In 2008, there were people (at least in Williamsburg) with petitions for all Democratic candidates together (except, I think, Mike Gravel). This makes sense. RPV should have done the same for all major candidates this time.

[Joe Taylor]

What was truly tragic was hearing about the volunteer who died in a car accident on the way home from checking signatures. So sad.

[Max Shapiro]

In the past RPV has let people collect signatures for multiple candidates, I've seen it done locally as well. In 2009 all the petition forms for statewide AG candidates had Bolling and McDonnell on them and RPV had forms circulating with Cooch, Foster, and Brownlee.

In 2010 during the 2nd district primary, GOP chairman Gary Byler was circulating forms with all 7 candidates names on them just to give everyone an extra margin for error.

[Fairfax Volunteer]

It is easy to overstate the meaning of this result.

The only real thing we've learned from Gingrich and Perry failing to make the ballot is that their organizations in Virginia were either insufficient or incompetent. They apparently turned in more than the 10,000 signatures required, but also apparently never stopped to think that maybe as many as 20-30% of the signatures they collected might be invalid. Smart campaigns collect AT LEAST 50% more than the requirement to ensure that invalidations don't knock them off the ballot.

My guess (having seen the Perry and Gingrich operations at work here in NoVa) is that they were simply being run by people with no experience running a statewide petition effort before. While Romney's people have been doing this for decades, Gingrich and Perry's operations made pretty elementary errors that someone experienced wouldn't have made.

[Loudoun Insider]

Ben does have a valid point that RPV should have done more to ensure more candidates made the cut. Unless of course helping out Bolling and Romney was part of the official mindset!

[Gretchen Laskas]

Wasn't Jerry Kilgore one of the big names on the Perry campaign? Hard to argue that he didn't know how to run a state-wide signature gathering campaign.

[Not Dick Saslaw]

1)Should RPV have done more? Sure. But ultimately it's the candidate's responsibility. They should not expect the state Party to hold their hand. They're running for President "for pete's sake", to quote the all-but-assured primary winner, Mitt Romney.

2) I'm guessing Bill Bolling is incredibly upset (wink-wink).

[Demrulz]

Here's the deal - DNC rules forbid requirements of more than 5k signaures; DNC Rules & Bylaws approved Va Dems having a primary if state party collected 5k (candidates still had to collect 5k). DPVA did that in 2004 and 2008 (although Obama and Clinton didn't need the help). This year OFA collected 15k month ago. So Dem primary was cancelled and Obama gets 100% of Va conv dels. Collecting all those sigs is a challenge, but you can do it if you are organized and have good volunteers or money to hire collectors. Most of this pathetic bunch of GOP candidates have neither.

[Ghost of Alexander Hamilton]

Gretchen is right, this make Jerry Kilgore look awfully stupid. Can't win a campaign for governor and can't run a presidential campaign operation. I guess no one was holding his hand.

[just the facts]

How far short did Gingrich fall? I presume he missed the requirements in a couple of congressional districts?

[NotCatherineCrabill]

Wow… “Mr. Newt” is so arrogant as to compare his pathetic political organization in Virginia to the deaths of 2400 servicemen at Pearl Harbor. Thank God he didn’t make the ballot!

[coal in my stocking]

Who really cares?

The GOP could put a monkey on the ballot and beat obama/biden...

Hope the Prez. is enjoying his four million dollar... taxpayer funded, Christmas/Kwanza(according to Hoyer)/Hanukah vacation in Hawaii.

Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus.. (if you are a liberal with power)...
let the rest of us "eat cake"....

Where are the 99 percenters on this abuse???
How many starving children could be fed with four mil?? How many homeless could be sheltered? How many 40 dollar paychecks could have been replaced?

Oh well, why should the prez. sacrifice his luxuries when the economy is getting so much better...?

[Gerarda]

How many of those who failed to get on the Virginia ballot have run for President before?

[Ghost of RWR]

How do you figure that this is Mullin’s fault? It is up to the campaigns to get their act together, not Mullins. It is NOT the responsibility of the state party to get people on the ballot. It would be a gross breach of impartiality for any state chairman to work to do what is inherently a campaign responsibility. Think about it. If Mullins got Bachmann on but not Perry, the Perry people would say he favored her campaign. Not good. Besides, getting on the ballot is fundamental for any campaign to show its viability, not the party.

Clearly Romney and Paul did the required work, the others did not, which is no surprise as the others have very poor campaign presence in Virginia. I have tried a number if times to reach out to two of campaigns that didn’t make the cut and found no one. So I personally am not at all surprised that the two best organized are on the ballot.

Now as to your notion that because the choices are limited, that Paul may be the beneficiary. Dead wrong. Paul is so completely out of step with foreign policy issues that he will repulse a lot of Virginians, particularly those in Tidewater and NOVA who are attuned with foreign policy and the military. This includes people who associate themselves with the Tea Party who very much want a strong foreign policy.

Now I would not completely discount a write-in effort by someone, but these are often of limited success in Virginia.

I do think that as time goes on, the GOP will begin to galvanize around who can best beat Obama. This will be more evident in March, but if Romney wins Iowa (not a given) wins New Hampshire (probable), has a respectable showing in South Carolina (unknown, but likely), and is able to win Florida (depending on his momentum), Super Tuesday will likely be determinative in the actual nominee.

All that said, there is a lot of time between now and then. But the GOP in Virginia is solidly opposed to Obama’s far-left agenda and will more than likely go with a “winner” over a “whiner”.

[James Young]

I'd really HATE to have to vote for Ron Paul AGAIN to protest the loser being foisted upon us by the GOP establishment!

[NotCatherineCrabill]

Re: Ghost of RWR

"Now I would not completely discount a write-in effort by someone, but these are often of limited success in Virginia."

Write-in votes are not allowed in primary elections under Virginia law. Plus, for those of us using touch-screens, a write-in would be impossible.

[Not Larry Sabato]

Touch screens are easy to write in on- but NCC is correct- write ins are not an option in Presidential primaries or for the Presidency in general elections.

[Ralph]

I don't think anyone expected Pat Mullins to organize signature-gathering, but as the clock ticked down to the filing deadline, was he notifying the individual campaigns? Checking in with local committees and volunteers? Pushing for some sort of extension?

Considering the rules are quite established, this (strangely) seems to have caught everyone by "surprise."

[Not Einstien]

" Oh well, why should the prez. sacrifice his luxuries "

Yep Coal, you're right.....Obama should follow the lead of Reagan, Bush I & Bush II and never leave DC at all, just stay there & toil away just like they did! Huh? CA ranch vacations lasting months? Kennebunkport vacations??? TX ranch vacations???? No, those are all just liberal media lies.

[just the facts]

And also Coal, don't look but the latest Quinipaic poll has Obama within 2 of Romney in the Commonwealth, while PPP has him beating Romney by 7 here. So don't dream its over, the battle has just been joined....

[David C.F. Ray]

I think most people who know me would have guessed this, but I voted against having this abominable primary. If we had done it the old way, every candidate would be able to get delegates from Virginia. Not now.

There are no ways out now. There isn't enough time to call a valid RPV State Central meeting to rescind the primary. Write-in votes are forbidden, under state law, in primaries. And the deadline is fixed by state law -- so RPV cannot fix this.

I suggest you ask EVERYONE running for Republican Congressional District Chairman and for the GOP State Central Central Committee in 2012 whether he voted for this primary or not (or whether he would do so for 2016) before committing to ANY of them.

David C.F. Ray

[Edtheman]

Just hope Leslie Byrne wont be wasting our tax dollars soon AGAIN.

[Stephen Spiker]

David, this wasn't a fault of having a primary, this was a fault of having candidates with terrible organizations. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater: primaries are still a million times more preferable than conventions, and people should base their vote on that fact.

[David C.F. Ray]

Steve,

This most certainly IS about convention vs. primary. Primary ballot access is controlled by state law, and by choosing a primary, RPV invited this very potential. It's ironic that so many primary advocates fret about how conventions exclude so many voters from having their say, when NOW, all voters in Virginia will be denied to opportunity to select among all the GOP candidates.

[Not Dick Saslaw]

And yet, they wouldn't be excluded if their favorite candidates didn't have piss-poor operations, David.

[David C.F. Ray]

The bottom line is this -- state law creates artificial barriers to candidacy. There should be none. The only barrier to a candidate's success should be his lack of appeal to the general electorate in November. A candidate's weakness is not an externally imposed barrier, it's a self-created one. A 100% non-productive requirement to run around Virginia pursuing and collecting no fewer than 400 signatures per Congressional District (and 10,000 total) is absolutely arbitrary, and serves no purpose other than to enjoy the circus of watching candidates expend themselves needlessly to satisfy an otherwise meaningless and arbitrary condition for the "privilege" of only THEN being able to offer themselves to the public. The petition signature requirement is a waste of EVERYONE'S time and it serves NO valid state purpose. If the Virginia GOP had chosen all of our delegates as unbound delegates at our Congressional District and State conventions, EVERY candidate would have been able to persuade ANY and EVERY delegate to support him. And EVERY Republican in Virginia could have had the possibility of supporting the Republican candidate of his choice. Now, only TWO Republican candidates can get delegates under the law, the delegates chosen (who will ALL still be chosen by convention) will ALL be required to vote for a predetermined candidate, whether that delegate actually supports that candidate or not, and NO Virginia voter can do ANYTHING to help Newt Gingrich, Michele Bachmann, Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, Buddy Roemer, or John Huntsman get nominated -- and THAT is wrong.

[Dem in Roanoke]

Gingrich is in this thing to sell books and increase his already bloated speech fee. Perry is not bright (Is there something in the water in the Texas governor's mansion?) and evidently doesn't have a person in his campaign in charge of meeting all the varying state primary petition requirements. To me, the sad thing is that Huntsman, the best of the GOP field, doesn't have money or staff to do much of anything. But, even though I don't really care about the GOP primary, I'm sure not surprised that Gilmore once again looks like a total loser.

[Ghost of RWR]

NotCatherineCrabill you are correct. I was reminded after my post that a write-in was not a possibility in primaries.

I am however wondering what options the General Assembly really does have to modify the procedure before March.

[Max Shapiro]

Yeah David, because we really need a bunch of insiders deciding who the nominee should be through a process where delegate forms are thrown out by angry chairmen because someone didn't put the middle initial or fill out the top part of the form like happened at the 2nd district convention in 08.

I don't think we need people trading appointments to the Federal Bench either like happened in the Obenshain-Warner Convention.

I guess you'd rather see resources wasted bribing the 40 or so delegates to vote for someone as opposed to paying people to gather signatures. You can't seriously tell me the process would be anything resembling ethical if we had unbound delegates statewide, can you?

[Tucker Watkins]

David, You are wrong in two very very special cases about conventions. Active duty military stationed overseas cannot participate in any convention. We have tens of thousands of those in Virginia who are disenfranchised by a convention process. Also, no Orthodox Jewish person can participate in a Saturday convention and there are many of our good Republicans who are of that religion.

While you may like the process and time and cost it takes someone to be elected and attend a state convention, it is clearly not the most open process that we can use for nomination to national or statewide office. We need to involve as many as possible so as many can feel they are a part of our party.

[David C.F. Ray]

In Virginia's history, we've only had bound national GOP delegates twice -- in 2000 and in 2008. If the delegates could be trusted from 1856 to 1996, I can trust them in 2012. No one should be compelled to vote for someone against his wishes. And no voter should be denied the opportunity to support the candidate of his choice.

Also, I cite to you this language from the RPV state party plan, Article VIII, Section H.4.:

"No delegation shall vote under a unit rule at any Convention; nor shall any delegation be instructed on any vote at any convention."

So by voting to have this primary, RPV violated its own party plan.

[Not This Again]

The RPV doesn't assume reponsibility for getting other federal and state office candidates on the ballot. Why should it be RPV's resposibility to get presidential candidates on the ballot--or be blamed if they don't? That's the candidate's job, period. What the Virginia petition process has provided is a public service to the nation in exposing the fact that outside of Romney and Paul, the other campaigns are not much more than media figments.

[Demrulz]

David - just get your Republicans in the GA to lower signature requirements to 5k _ your candidates should be able to handle that

[NotJohnSMosby]

If Perry or Gingrich or anyone has 1,000 supporters in the state, each of them needs to get a couple of signature forms and spend a few hours outside a grocery store. That's it. Or how about this - every member of the 140 or so city and county Republican committees could have each signed petitions for each candidate. Are there 10,000 Republicans Party members in the state?

The whiners on all the blogs make this process out to be where the candidates themselves need to go door to door in every city and county and personally get signatures. That's just stupid. They had six months to get 10,000 signatures. In a pinch, with some organization, they could have banged that out in a weekend. Instead, they failed over a six-month stretch - at minimum.

[DCCyclone]

It's highly likely that none of this is going to matter even a trivial bit.

The looks of it at this stage are that Romney has the nomination all but locked up. The attack ads against Newt are working, he's not able or willing to fight back, and no one is left as a serious threat to Mitt.

So we'll see Obama punishing Romney for many months on the way to what ends up being a comfortable reelection in an improved economy. That's fine by me.

[change]

Yep, one billion dollars sure will make for a lot of “punishing” ads from the Obama administration.
The real question is, are people so stupid they will fall for the “hopey, changey” line again?

Apparently, some fools are already falling for the “improved economy BS” as they hear unemployment percentages coming down; not understanding the real reason is that people are so frustrated they are giving up on looking for jobs.
However, there are many ’08 Obama voters who are not so naïve, and understand the “fool me once” lesson of life.

[NotJohnSMosby]

So change, you think they're going to vote for Romney? Or Newt?

Republicans had a chance in 2012 if they had simply recruited a good candidate. They didn't. You have village idiots like Bachman and Perry, retreads like Gingrich, nutbars like Paul, and the cultist pretty-boy Romney. That's it. You lose.

[Not Quite TJ]

(snicker)...Doesn't anyone see the humor in the fact that Dennis Kucinich could get on the primary ballot in 2004 under the same rules that flumoxed Newt Gingrich in 2008?

I would draw conclusions from that but it would "make me tremble for my country."

[change]

NJSM,
If that is the case, maybe Obama should just call off the election and give his billion dollars to a few more of his friends..

OOPs never mind... they only use taxpayer money for that...

[Expletive Deleted]

"Oops"...seems to be the new Republican
warcry/excuse.

[just the facts]

Change, you think the alternative the GOP has been offering is even remotely desirable? Acting deliberately to show that government can't work by throwing monkey wrenches in agreements already negotiated by the Senate as the tea party house has done has gone a long way to making our case that the GOP's raison d'etre these days is making it so government can't work to support their claims that government will never work.

[Max Shapiro]

I find it hilarious that you contend because we had unbound delegates before, they must have been trustworthy and therefore they should be trusted again. That's just so obviously wrong that it needs to further explanation.

Point taken on the party plan though. The RNC has similar language, so it's not like they are going to be bound either way.

However your contention that "no voter should be denied the opportunity to support the candidate of his choice," would not be validated through a convention as there is no way to vote for those stationed overseas or unable to attend.

[NotCatherineCrabill]

"Virginia's requirement for petition circulators to be eligible or registered qualified voters in the state imposes a severe burden on Plaintiffs' [sic] freedoms of speech and association because it substantially limits the number of eligible petition circulators."

Seriously, Rick? There were 5,116,942 registered voters in Virginia as of November 5, 2011. How many did you circulators did you need to get 10,000 valid signatures? 1 billion?

[NotCatherineCrabill]

To quote Rick Perry... "Oops!"

The second paragraph should have said as follows:

Seriously, Rick? There were 5,116,942 registered voters in Virginia as of November 5, 2011. How many circulators did you need to get 10,000 valid signatures? 1 billion?

[David C.F. Ray]

Well, Max, let's see. Under MY proposal, overseas voters are unlikely to be able to participate (obviously, SOME overseas voters, albeit a tiny number, COULD fly in to participate in a convention, if it was that big a priority for them) -- military, by federal law, would be forbidden to do so. But you and I and millions of Virginians could. And you and I and millions of Virginians COULD vote for delegates for Rick Perry or Michele Bachmann or Jon Huntsman or Rick Santorum or Buddy Roemer or Newt Gingrich. Under YOUR proposal, all the same overseas voters are denied the opportunity to vote for Rick Perry or Michele Bachmann or Jon Huntsman or Rick Santorum or Buddy Roemer or Newt Gingrich, and so are YOU and I and EVERY voter in Virginia. I think it's pretty clear which of the two proposals allows both more CANDIDATES to compete and more VOTERS to have a FULL array of choices.

[Valley Indie]

Blame lies squarely and solely with the candidates who failed to qualify.

It is retarded to try to fault the state party for a candidate's failure.

[change]

jtf,
Parroting the ond DNC talking points again, and again and again...

I look forward to someday hearing a thought that was not placed in your head by someone else...

[Bubby Hussein, Hillbilly Sheikh]

Rick Perry is suing Virginia because he couldn't get his primary petitions submitted!

An inconvenient State's Right I suppose.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/12/rick-perry-virginia-ballot-/1

[Not Bubby]

Perry is proven to be a whiny little bitch, trying to use the courts to bail him out of his own screw up. Sounds like a liberal.

[Expletive Deleted]

Nope. Perry sounds like the whiny,bitchy former cheerleader & conservative jerk that he is.

[Valley Indie]

Not Bubby has it right. Turning to the courts to overturn established law, that's right out of the crybaby leftwinger playbook.

[Valley Indie]

Federal judge ruled against Perry today. Score one for the good guys.

[Seven Force]

I agree money is a corrupting influence on politics, change. So I'm sure you support public financing of elections with a cap on spending, combined with strict limits on SUPER PACs and the like right? And that "Citizens United" was a bad decision. Right?

Right?

[Seven Force]

BTW, I *expected* Newt to be this disorganized. But Perry? I thought he had an actual national campaign and was well-funded. This is more embarrassing for him than Newt, who never had much of an organization (even Iowa!) to begin with.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Pat Mullins should step down, no doubt about it, but this is bigger than one (admittedly dumb) person. Ultimately I blame the McGovern-Frasier reforms that states adopted en masse in advance of the 1972 elections. These reforms, among other things, brought us direct primaries -- which empowered the crazies and hardcare partisans -- and weakened state party organizations.

State parties tended to care more about the average voter than the ideological warriors out there, and winning elections. It's hard to imagine today, but at one time not so long ago state party organizations actually played a significant role fielding candidates and winning elections. Now, as Seven Force points out, unaccountable SuperPACs and their secret donors -- along with voters who occupy the fringes of each party -- call the shots previously reserved for state parties. And we wonder why American politics has become so polarized over the last 30 years? R.I.P. state party organizations. Hello corporate money and phony astroturf politics. And just in case you're keeping tabs, corporate money swamps labor money in the political universe by a whopping 10-1. That is literally the difference of an order of magnitude.

[Tucker Watkins]

David C. F. Ray,

Under your proposal, conventions could easily turn into back room deals just as we have seen in every many candidate convention. Name me one that had over three candidates that you have ever been to that didn't end that way.

The average Republican who does not care to go to a long drawn out local meeting and does not care to spend their free Saturday going to a state convention would not be involved at all. As you admitted, our active duty service people who protect us every day would be denied the right to vote as well as the Orthodox Jewish people and and anyone else who has a religious conflict.

Reforming the primary qualification process is the solution.

[Seven Force]

@Tucker Watkins

I agree, conventions would be an utter nightmare. More so for the Republicans at this point in political history as their party has been hijacked by loons (see: nomination of Christine O'Donnell in DE) but someday it could easily happen to my party, too.

Imagine having to watch a statewide race between Jamie Radtke and Virginian version of Cynthia McKinney. That's what convention system could led to.

Blech!

[Not Dave Marsden]

You know what I find most amusing about this? Republicans have spent the last four years denying voter rights across the nation because of their belief in "voter fraud" (really just a euphemism for denying potential Democratic voters access to the polls). They put in place all these onerous rules to prevent. Opting and voter registration. I think it's just great that these guys who are supposed to be adherents of process screwed this one up. I think all 10,000 of thei signatures should be checked for a valid ID - we don't want anyone sneaking through the electoral process.

Let's see if they catch the irony. Hint: they won't.

[Not Bubby]

You know what I find most amusing about this? Community college dropouts like Not Dave Marsden, with their 2-digit IQ, wringing their hands because reasonable voter ID laws make it tougher for them to fabricate votes.

Suck it.

[Bubby Hussein, Hillbilly Sheikh]

"reasonable" is not a term that anyone would apply to Republican politics, hell your own teabagger base hates the term. Tell the truth, your only path to victory is built upon voter suppression.

[Not Dave Marsden]

I haven't noticed a plague of fake voters lining up at the polls. These are laws in search of a crime. Anyone who has paid any attention to this issue knows its all a out voter suppression. Why else does Texas not accept Univ. of Texas student id's as valid forms of identification? Is that "reasonable"?

The history of fabricated votes in the US has always been on the counting side of the equation, not t the ballot box.

[NotCatherineCrabill]

So now Cuccinelli, who is responsible for defending Virginia's laws and state agencies, is trying to persuade the legislature to pass emergency legislation to change the rules for the primary? And he doesn't think he has a conflict of interest in the Perry suit?!?

So we're going to reward one candidate who claims he didn't make the ballot because of felonious, criminal fraud by a petition gatherer, another whose suit claims he turned in "over 6,000" valid signatures (when 10,000 were required), and others who didn't even turn in petitions? Why?

If Gov. McDonnell supports this legislative travesty, as Fox News is reporting, let us pray there are at least 21 delegates and/or 7 senators who aren't just political hacks and believe in principle.

[NotCatherineCrabill]

Another Rick Perry "oops" moment... (I'm doing this from my iPhone)

That should have said "and/or 9 senators" above.

[Not Bubby]

Not Dave vomited... "Why else does Texas not accept Univ. of Texas student id's as valid forms of identification? Is that "reasonable"?"

Thanks for proving my point, dipshit. Non-citizens are admitted as students, and the standards for getting a college ID are notoriously lax.

I realize that you're bitter over the humiliating defeats in every election for the past 3 years. But blaming the "voter-suppression" bogeyman just shows that you're a typical left wing bedwetter.

[Not Dave Marsden]

Look pal, I haven't said anything about the past elections or blame for how they turned out. What I said is that these voter ID laws are all about suppressing Democratic voters and nothing else. Anyone who follows this issue - 2-digit IQ or not - knows that.

As for college ID's. The purported point of voter ID is to make sure the person voting is who they say they are. A college ID certainly does that and it is issued by the state. Why wouldn't it be accepted and a conceal weapon permit. E accepted? College ID's are like credit cards today. You can buy stuff with them. I don't see how they are different than a drivers license or conceal carry license for the purpose of identification. Non-citizens can get those as well, you know.

If you are concerned about non-citizEns voting, then the problem is how their names get on the rolls (another issue voter ID laws also focus on).

[Alexander Hamilton]

A "left-wing bed-wetter." What a valuable contribution to the conversation.

Are you citing research that demonstrates a statistically significant difference in bed-wetting using party affiliation as an explanatory variable? Or, as I suspect, just talking out of your ass?

If you were to conduct such a study, and I encourage you to do so and share the data with the rest of us, you will first need to draw a representative sample of bed-wetters from among the general population. Now, bed-wetting tends to primarily affect those aged 5-8, which in most cases is long before political identities have been shaped, so you might have a tough time finding enough politically-active children who are also active bet-wetters to participate in your study. But if you do, you'll get leverage in discovering the truth of the matter, and you might also try to unravel the potential reciprocal causality at play between bed-wetting and political ideology. For instance, does bed-wetting cause conservatism/liberalism at a later age, or does conservatism/liberalism cause bed-wetting?

On this point anecdotal evidence is instructive. It appears as though most adolescents, when they register for the first time, select the Democratic Party over the Republican Party. Sure enough, bed-wetting tends to subside almost completely at around this time, which suggests that becoming a Democrat is negatively correlated with bed-wetting. And if Democrats are less likely to wet the bed, based on the available evidence, then it stands to reason that GOP adherents are making up the difference in the population. So I guess the real question is: "Does Becoming a Republican Increase Your Probability of Wetting the Bed?"

[Happy to be in new year]

I too think I ridiculous to have to prove who I am when I desire to vote….

I also think I should not have to prove who I am when I cash check at bank, after all I have check with “my” name on it (and since I still have checks, I clearly have money in account…)

And about this ridiculous rule that one must be governmentally sanctioned to drive a car and carry valid ID.. I HAVE KEYS for crying out loud…

And why do I need ID to buy beer at local supermarket?... I AM 21, take my word for it…

Lets us stop this ID insanity so that in November I can cash my stolen check, drive to 7-11, grab a six-pack, and vote for my favorite democrat…..
(please do not tell anyone that I am really a 17y/o citizen of Iran; it might screw up all my American “rights and freedoms”… thanks be that you do not stone people here…)

America is great country…

[Not Bubby]

Happy, your comment flew right over most of the pointy heads around here. But well said.