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Tatum

Yep. My wife told me about a suspicious call she got last week. They asked her if she planned to vote. She told them "yes" and they hung up immediately. That was it. This explains it!

Spock

Why are you taking the word of a known fraudster "James O'Keefe" who is not only one of Morton Blackwell's and Breitbart's former butt-sniffers, but he pals around white supremacists like Jared Taylor and the white power college group called Youth for Western Civilization.

He is known for fudging and editing tapes like the BS that was pulled on ACORN.

James Young

Yeah, Spock. Except the entire video starts after 8 minutes. But nice example of ad hominem. O'Keefe's biggest "sin" is that he's effective at exposing far-Left wrongdoing.

Kudos to you, Ben.

Spock

James- O'Rly?

Well, we have some pretty extensive coverage of the O'Keefe timeline, including a photo of O'Keefe at a white supremacist event WITH Jared Taylor from the white power organization "American Renaissance in the photo:

http://ladylibertyslamp.wordpress.com/2010/06/01/breitbarts-buttboy-james-okeefe-the-timeline/

And oh, his connection with "Youth for Western Civilization"

http://www.longislandwins.com/index.php/blog/post/james_okeefe_acorn_pimp_and_youth_for_western_civilization/

These aren't ad homs, James, these are FACTS, unlike what James O'Queef knows how to deal in.

notjohnsmosby

We have an example in Rockingham County of a Republican Party employee committing election fraud by destroying voter registration forms. He’s been arrested for this crime. Ben posts this - in fact, helped break the story - almost immediately. Republicans don't say a word.

We have an example in Arlington County of a Democrat discussing possible ways of committing voter fraud if someone wanted to. He won’t be arrested, since he committed no crime. Ben posts this almost immediately. Just as fast, Republicans, who didn't say a word about the actual election fraud on the part of Republicans, come on to make comments about the Democrat.

Which is worse, actually committing a crime, or discussing possibilities of how, theoretically, one could commit a crime? Why are Republicans so silent on the part of one of theirs actually getting caught and arrested, while immediately accusing the Dem?

If you're upset about Pat Moran's idiotic - though obvious - primer on how someone could commit voter fraud, why weren't you upset when a Republican operative was throwing valid voter registration forms into a dumpster?

Thomas

"No reason to sugarcoat this in any way, it is totally unacceptable. I think it's time for his dad to retire."

Once again, Ben shows his true colors!

Chubber Stein

NJS -- A fair point, and all voter fraud, including attempts or conspiracies to commit voter fraud (which would cover Moran's son) should be investigated and prosecuted to the fullest. What these cases show is that, contra the public statements of Obama's AG, voter fraud is most certainly real, it is a problem, and there are people in prominent positions and related to prominent elected officials who have no qualms about committing fraud or conspiring with others to commit fraud. On the GOP case, I am not certain what can be done other than to strengthen current penalties against what occurred, and perhaps putting a higher wall between voter officials and elected officials in the same jurisdiction. In Pat Moran's case, what this calls for is stronger voter ID laws. Given the ease with which Moran suggests fake identifying information (i.e., a utility bill) can be created, and an expressed confidence that partisan poll watchers will fail to act as gatekeepers against fraud, I think it is apparent that our laws are insufficient. Maybe we could come to an agreement -- stronger penalties and protections to prevent what happened in Harrisonburg, and requiring a state-issued ID or something similar to prevent Moran's case.

notjohnsmosby

Pat Moran discussing easy ways to theoretically vote as someone else on election day is no different than a discussion on other criminal topic. If two people drive by a building and see movers going in and out with boxes, and one says "it would be easy to rob that building by posing as movers", does that mean those two people plan to rob the building? No, it doesn't.

Someone discussing ways to commit voter fraud is not a conspiracy to commit voter fraud. Just as a random discussion on how you could claim a few extra dependents on your tax form is not tax evasion. Someone has to actually do it, and the laws and penalties in place deter that action. So, until someone is caught committing voter fraud in more than a single case here and there, then slamming innocent people - voters, in this case - with onerous ID requirements is uncalled for. You are punishing 10s of millions to dissuade a dozen criminals

Pat's mistake was talking to the two idiots in the first place. What he actually said, however, isn't really news to anyone who works the polls on a regularly basis. Sure, you could go to your neighbor's house, steal his gas bill, and go vote in his place. It doesn't mean you will, any more than you would drive your car into line of people waiting at a bus stop just because you can. That's why there are police and prosecutors and prisons. There's a massive penalty for those actions.

So, again, an actual crime, like down in Rockingham County, is one thing. And Republicans have been extremely quiet about that. Talking about how you could commit a crime is a very different thing, and Republicans are screaming about it. Ignore the crime committed on your behalf while making a lot of noise about non-crime that makes the other side look bad. Is that hypocritical?

Pat was stupid to have done it, but it's clear from the video what he was talking about. O'Keefe and crew didn't stumble onto a voter fraud operation. They asked a low level guy on a campaign how they could commit fraud, and he answered.

Lindaacorn

Rs have not been "silent" on Rockingham County. AG Cucinelli has been asked to investigate the case and has promised on his FB page that, "This office will perform a thorough investigation of these very serious allegations. Violations of election laws will not be tolerated in the commonwealth. Citizens must feel confident that one of our most precious rights-the right to vote-is protected and that the electoral process is a secure and democratic one. We will do everything we can to ensure that."

So far, 384 of his FB friends (most of whom are presumable Rs) have "liked" the post.

Please, get out of your echo chambers if you want to see what Rs are saying.

notjohnsmosby

Holy shit, a post on a Facebook account. Awesome. How many days did it take to announce his "investigation"? Wasn't it days after entities in Richmond said that it was an isolated event? Even though no investigation had been performed that could even do a preliminary assessment that it was an isolated incident?

Where were you and the other teabagger asshats like James Young who have posted in this thread, but none of the ones concerning the Republican election fraud criminal activity?

Lindaacorn

Um, NJS, that was an example. Not sure why a FB post would be considered any less valid than a blog comment, but whatever.

This is the first time I think I've ever posted on NLS, and it is to say that Rs are concerned about the fraud. Sorry if that upsets your world view.

FYI, Cuccinelli posted much earlier about the case ... that he wanted to be able to investigate it but had to wait for an invitation to do so (because that's the law in VA) and that he found it very frustrating that he needed to wait. Again, maybe you want to get out of your liberal echo chambers and see what's going on before posting your rants.

Also FYI ... I'm not part of the Tea Party. Again, sorry if this upsets you.

Bruce Hedrick

Horsecrap. I got called an "a-hole" by Jim Hoeft when I called him out for referring to that inceident as a "misguided staffer" who "screwed up".

Lindaacorn

Oh, man. Jim Hoeft said that? Someone should inform all of the Rs who are calling for an investigation.

One guy who happens to have a blog and happens to think you're an a-hole doesn't make my comment horsecrap. (And initial reports did made it look like it was a case of one guy screwing up, so depending on when he wrote that, I'm not even sure his comment reflected a lack of concern on his own part so much as a lack of info.)

Thomas

"In Pat Moran's case, what this calls for is stronger voter ID laws."

Typical Republican response to everything from hangnails to voter suppression. When your only tool is hammer, every thing looks like a nail!

ifthethunderdontgetya™³²®©

Wow.

A video from RapeBoat James O'Keefe, and we're supposed to get excited about it?

l.o.l.
~

Spock

This should NOT be left in the hands of Coooch.

This needs to be a federal investigation and Eric Holder needs to get involved.

Anonisawoman

Here is what a conspiracy would actually look like.

Two or more people would have to agree to commit a crime - in this case commit voter fraud by voting in somebody else's place. They would then have to discuss how they would accomplish this, make clear plans, which include specifically designating who would do what and when they would do it.

It would involve more than simply discussing the pros and cons of doing this in vague terms while laughing about it. Indeed, on the video, Patrick Moran clearly tells the unseen video cameraman that his energy would be better spent actually getting out the real vote.

He then goes on to offer in broad outline what would be involved in assuming a voter's identity.

Yes, it was stupid to engage in theoretical speculation, but keep in mind that Patrick did not know he was about to star in a video. The camera was hidden. And Moran was clearly laughing through most of it, like a man who did not take it seriously.

Virtually every mainstream newspaper that reported on this, including the L.A. Times, which clearly has no preference for any Virginia candidate because they are located in California, has written that Moran's conversation was so general that it didn't rise to criminal conspiracy. The LA Times also points out that Moran was clearly no expert in voter fraud. His statements were so general that anybody could have given the same advice to the unseen conservative activist posing as a Democrat. And nowhere did Moran actually offer to help him. Moran actually seemed dismissive all the while he was discussing the topic.

So, basically, all this uproar is about a man caught on tape engaging in idle speculation, not a fully formed plan.

And the Arlington police are currently investigating not conspiracy but speech.

Fortunately, they have announced that they also are investigating the videotape.

If any criminal, or even civil liability exists, that is where you will find it, not in the speculative words of Patrick Moran.

Here's the real deal - inconvenient as it is for conservative zealots - entrapment is against the law. So is libel and so is slander, both of which O'Keefe can and should be sued for.

So is suborning voter fraud. And despite some conservative claims, it was the cameraman who approached Moran, suggested voter fraud, followed Moran, and kept discussing it despite Moran's early attempts to walk away. If you are fair minded, you will see that on the tape.

Most of the people James O'Keefe sets up and embarrasses are low level operatives who are private citizens. O'Keefe also is an activist with a clear ax to grind and an ulterior motive to create embarrassment for his victims. He is hardly an objective reporter capturing real wrongdoing.

Instead, he inserts himself into situations that he himself creates. Or, in this case, that his operative created.

That would leave him open to a suit that would deservedly bankrupt him.

Free speech ends at the moment you slander another person with clear intent to create malicious harm. I think James O'Keefe and his merry band of followers meet that criteria.

notjohnsmosby

I look forward to the day when James O'Keefe is safely ensconced in a Federal pound-you-in-the-ass prison and can no longer annoy us with his stupidity.

James Young

It never fails to amaze me, Spock, that you consider moonbat smears to be "facts."

And BTW, Spock, the fact that you only frequent moonbat websites would be why you didn't know that I have no problem with prosecuting the matters in Rockingham County. Of course, the accused there is innocent until PROVEN guilty, which you seem to have forgotten. You also seem to be singularly ignorant of the fact that I have commented that Moran's behavior here may well NOT be a crime.

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